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Tony Blair & religion;; former PM's views & comments
Topic Started: Sunday, 24. June 2007, 17:35 (1,207 Views)
Timothy
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Quote:
 
What? Have you not been reading the forum recently ?


Well I doubt very much that any of you would be vocal in being critical of an individual named person.
"An adult faith does not follow the waves of fashion and the latest novelty."
"Having a clear faith, according to the credo of the church, is often labelled as fundamentalism."
Pope Benedict XVI
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Gerard

Eve

Though i agree with the sentiments you express I would have to qualify it somewhat since they became one in marriage.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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maklavan

The last time I heard, slander and detraction are still sins in the eyes of the Church,and against the Commandments. It is sad to see Catholics making character assassinations based on the lies and concoctions of the tabloid Press.
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DeniseLawson
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PJD
Dec 23 2007, 11:33 AM
“He is also by use and custom bound to the principle of Cabinet responsibility and as the nominal head of the government has some obligation to support publicly the decisions it makes.”

No such obligation exists in my opinion for a Catholic; but then he wasn’t a Catholic at that time.


Ummm...actually, he has the obligation to not obey any civil law that contradicts divine law. For example, according to Church teaching, Catholics are not bound to abide by laws allowing abortion and euthanasia because such laws violate divine law in that they seek to legalize the murder of innocent human beings. If I can find the passage in the Catechism for this, I'll post it later, but I know it's there because I read it recently.

That said, however, I would hope that his joining the church meant he was somehow able to reconcile his past differences with Church teachings - surely the Cardnial saw something there that indicated his sincerity in living in accordance with the Church's teachings to the best of his ability. If he isn't able to completely embrace the Church's teachings on abortion at this time, then it seems to me he needs our prayers - leave the judmgent to God and the authorities He appointed to do so - the apostles and their descendents.
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Em.
Dec 23 2007, 04:17 PM
Now his baptism washed away all of his since.

Was he baptised when he was received into the Church?

Given that conditional baptism is no longer routine when someone is received from a denomination, chances are his original baptism still stands.

I presume he was baptised as an Anglican in the first place.
S.A.G.

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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Rose of York
Dec 23 2007, 04:34 PM
Gerry beat me to it. I have seem plenty of judgmentalism, on this forum, quite recently.

Well, yes, if defending Catholic principles constitutes "judgmentalism".
S.A.G.

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DeniseLawson
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Clare
Dec 23 2007, 08:57 PM
Em.
Dec 23 2007, 04:17 PM
Now his baptism washed away all of his since.

Was he baptised when he was received into the Church?

Given that conditional baptism is no longer routine when someone is received from a denomination, chances are his original baptism still stands.

I presume he was baptised as an Anglican in the first place.

That's what I was wondering. And I suspect he was baptized in the Anglican Church at some point. If he was, it would have definitely been a trinitarian baptism, therefore no need for the RCC to baptize him.
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Michaeljohn

Quote:
 
It is sad to see Catholics making character assassinations based on the lies and concoctions of the tabloid Press.
maklavan, I am a simple man and was taught always to see the best in people. Perhaps you could explain this post and also tell me in what way it is not itself character assassination.
Perhaps you could also point me towards the specific "lies and concoctions" you refer to and which particular organ of "the tabloid Press" you are accusing.
In the interests of clarity and fairness, you understand.
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Em.

DeniseLawson

I am sure that you are right, at least that is what I was brought up to beleive, but I do think that there is "something" to be carried out tom be recognised as Catholic. Whaty, I don't know.
Divine Mercy
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Em.

Michaeljohn

maklavan is correc t, if you do not agree with him, then you missed much what was said in ALL the newspapers, the BBC etc.
But you arer also right that is is a "sort" of chjaracter assasination, but again, with all rights.
Divine Mercy
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
DeniseLawson
Dec 23 2007, 09:05 PM
Clare
Dec 23 2007, 08:57 PM
Was he baptised when he was received into the Church?

Given that conditional baptism is no longer routine when someone is received from a denomination, chances are his original baptism still stands.

I presume he was baptised as an Anglican in the first place.

That's what I was wondering. And I suspect he was baptized in the Anglican Church at some point. If he was, it would have definitely been a trinitarian baptism, therefore no need for the RCC to baptize him.

Not necessarily. Even if the Trinitarian formula is used, water still has to be poured, by the same person, at the same time, for validity.

I've heard of Anglican baptisms where the water is dabbed with cotton wool. Trinitiarian formula or not, dabbing with cotton wool is not valid.
S.A.G.

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Rose of York
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Michaeljohn
Dec 23 2007, 09:09 PM
Quote:
 
It is sad to see Catholics making character assassinations based on the lies and concoctions of the tabloid Press.
maklavan, I am a simple man and was taught always to see the best in people. Perhaps you could explain this post and also tell me in what way it is not itself character assassination.
Perhaps you could also point me towards the specific "lies and concoctions" you refer to and which particular organ of "the tabloid Press" you are accusing.
In the interests of clarity and fairness, you understand.


Maklavan, some of our members have commented on Tony Blair's voting record on abortion. I fail to see how statements of established facts, can be interpreted as "character assassination based on lies and concoctions".

Rose of York
Jun 27 2007, 12:31 AM
Tony Blair's voting record includes:
Link to Guardian Unlimited
Adoption and children - 4.11.2002
Vote on government plan to allow unmarried and gay couples to adopt children. Supporters voted for. The motion was passed.
Blair voted FOR.

Age of consent February 2000 - 10.2.2000
Vote on government plan to lower age of consent for gay sex to 16. Supporters voted for. The motion was passed. Blair voted FOR.

Age of consent June 1998 - 22.6.1998
Vote on government plan to lower the age of consent for gay sex to 16. Supporters voted for. The measure was passed but defeated by the Lords. Blair voted FOR.

And this is what a trustee of Life said:

http://www.lifeuk.org/news/news.php?subact...rt_from=&ucat=&Life website

Quote:
 
Nuala Scarisbrick, Trustee of LIFE, said ‘Abortion has helped to destroy many families and underpins the sexual free-for-all which has resulted in epidemic sexual disease, relationship breakdown, fatherhood marginalized, and underage children encouraged to have sex.’

‘Mr Blair is a keen supporter of abortion, judging by his voting record, so it is not surprising that he does not blame the legalisation of abortion for much of today’s social and moral problems. But anyone who calmly analyses the effect of the permissive legislation of the 60s must honestly admit that the 1967 Abortion Act was and is a disaster. Nearly 6 million unborn children have been killed, nearly 6 million women and girls damaged physically and emotionally, nearly 6 million men for whom fatherhood has been devalued.’

‘Mr Blair is said to want to reduce the upper age limit of abortion, a step in the right direction. But why not admit that abortion is a devastating experience for women, and men, and a complete denial of the human rights of preborn people, and that it has no place in the 21st century.’


There is no reason why what a person did in the past should prevent him becoming a Catholic now. Before making a declaration of belief, a potential convert must receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation. What was said in the confessional is obviously between Tony Blair and his confessor.
Keep the Faith!

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Michaeljohn

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maklavan is correc t, if you do not agree with him, then you missed much what was said in ALL the newspapers, the BBC etc.
But you arer also right that is is a "sort" of chjaracter assasination, but again, with all rights.
Em, let me get this right.
If I do not agree with maklavan it's because I haven't read the newspapers or listened to/watched the BBC. (Always the BBC, of course; never Sky News or Channel 4 or ITV or CNN!). He is "correct" to accuse some Catholics (unspecified) of character assassination (without any specifics or evidence) and these comments must be the result of their reading "lies and concoctions" purveyed by that all-purpose bogeyman -- the tabloid press. Pass the garlic.
What he says, you seem to agree, is also a sort of character assassination but that's OK because 1) he's on the side of the angels, and 2) it's only the tabloid press he's attacking.
I'm not sure that we're taking a very Christian approach to this. Apart from one or two mildly critical comments which seemed to be fully justified by the information at hand we have broadly welcomed Tony Blair as a new recruit while being a little concerned that he should not be being allowed in under a false flag.
Personally I am not in a position to know his present stance on any of the matters which have been raised and neither, as far as I know, is anyone else on this forum.
Leave him alone and stop demanding self-abasement. It's not Christian.
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Rose of York
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Michaeljohn
Dec 23 2007, 10:23 PM
Leave him alone and stop demanding self-abasement. It's not Christian.

Well said, Michaeljohn. Now that Tony Blair has taken the big step, and become a Catholic, let us welcome him into the Catholic Church with open arms.

Keep the Faith!

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CARLO
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Well said Michaeljohn and Rose!

Let us keep our lay noses out of spiritual matters that are between Mr Blair and his confessor.

Veritas
Truth


CARLO
Judica me Deus
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