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Tony Blair & religion;; former PM's views & comments
Topic Started: Sunday, 24. June 2007, 17:35 (1,208 Views)
PJD

We put up with him for 10 years (?) and we have to put up with him in heaven? is there something that we can do?

Yes I like that!!

and I agree entirely with Carlo.

PJD
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Rose of York
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At teatime I watched both ITV and BBC News. One channel interviewed Anne Widdecombe, former cabinet minister. Did she HAVE to be interviewed outside Westminster Cathedral, attired in Cardinal Red? Was she trying to prove the media are correct in frequently producing her as "leading Catholic"? I found it rather amusing.
Keep the Faith!

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DeniseLawson
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Well, not being involved in British politics, I don't know how the woman is or isn't typically portrayed, but I did find some of her comments put forth by the print media to be interesting, especially those wondering if he has come to terms with Church teachings on issues he previously was in disagreement on, i.e. abortion. I wonder if his views have changed, as one would hope, or if he is little different than the average liberal Catholic who also has no problem with accepting abortion, contraception and other such issues that place them at odds with Church teachings.
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Ned

Rose of York
Dec 22 2007, 09:08 PM

Was [Anne Widdedcombe] trying to prove the media are correct in frequently producing her as "leading Catholic"?



Yes.

And now there is likely to be an Anne & Tony double-act.
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Eve
Former Admin/Moderator
DeniseLawson
Dec 22 2007, 10:52 PM
I wonder if his views have changed, as one would hope, or if he is little different than the average liberal Catholic who also has no problem with accepting abortion, contraception and other such issues that place them at odds with Church teachings.

I must have known thousands of Catholics, and though I can recall two saying they saw nothing wrong with abortion if a woman had been raped or her life is in danger, I have never spoken to one who believed abortion was anything less than murder.
Howdy Folks. Has anybody seen my husband lately?
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Ned

DeniseLawson
Dec 22 2007, 09:52 PM
Well, not being involved in British politics, I don't know how the woman is or isn't typically portrayed, but I did find some of her comments put forth by the print media to be interesting, especially those wondering if he has come to terms with Church teachings on issues he previously was in disagreement on, i.e. abortion.  I wonder if his views have changed, as one would hope, or if he is little different than the average liberal Catholic who also has no problem with accepting abortion, contraception and other such issues that place them at odds with Church teachings.

You've made a very good point there, Denise.

I don't think that this is the right time to talk about this particular case on this particular furum.

But there is some general points that others have already mentioned.

It is marvellous to here that Mr Blair has found Christ - but there needs to be much more evangelisation.

The Church is failing to engage with society: the non-catholics, and the 'practising catholics'.

The Church must get the message across to us all, the sinners, converted or unconverted, that for love of us Christ - true God and true man - died on the cross.

The Gospel message must be preached - even if the pressure that puts on the clergy means fewer Masses.
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Timothy
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I wish him well, and shall include him in my prayers.
"An adult faith does not follow the waves of fashion and the latest novelty."
"Having a clear faith, according to the credo of the church, is often labelled as fundamentalism."
Pope Benedict XVI
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saundthorp

Timothy
Dec 23 2007, 02:03 AM
I wish him well, and shall include him in my prayers.

Timothy,

I think all Catholics will wish him well but his previous track record of being at odds so publicly with Catholic morality cannot just be swept under the carpet.
In his defence I did read a good comment on a blog of a leading Catholic journalist. The poster said we must realise that when Blair was so much against Catholic moral teaching he wasn't a Catholic. Lets wait and see how he shapes up now he has converted. I think the poster has a point.

Rose, in another place, said we have the example of Paul with his road to Damascus experience. Paul was willing to admit how wrong he had been. Is TB willing to admit, publicly as Paul did, just how wrong he was before his conversion?
Truth is still the truth even if no one believes it. Error is still error even if everyone believes it.
(Archbishop Fulton Sheen)
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saundthorp

Quote:
 
And now there is likely to be an Anne & Tony double-act.


You are joking Ned?
Truth is still the truth even if no one believes it. Error is still error even if everyone believes it.
(Archbishop Fulton Sheen)
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PJD

It matters little now (except perhaps as pertaining to current Catholic MP’s) that I would comment on the following contributed above:

“He is also by use and custom bound to the principle of Cabinet responsibility and as the nominal head of the government has some obligation to support publicly the decisions it makes.”

No such obligation exists in my opinion for a Catholic; but then he wasn’t a Catholic at that time.

“Does the option of abstaining exist for a Prime Minister?”

In my opinion, again for a Catholic, the answer to that is No. Abstention is almost equivalent, maybe even not equivalent but worse, than voting for. And contriving to arrange your appointments accordingly amounts to the same thing.

PJD
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Timothy
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Quote:
 
I think all Catholics will wish him well but his previous track record of being at odds so publicly with Catholic morality cannot just be swept under the carpet.
In his defence I did read a good comment on a blog of a leading Catholic journalist. The poster said we must realise that when Blair was so much against Catholic moral teaching he wasn't a Catholic. Lets wait and see how he shapes up now he has converted. I think the poster has a point.


Bishop Stack, yesterday speaking on BBC News 24 (or Sky I'm not sure) put it perfectly, he stated that an MP has to legislate for the population, and that it is very difficult for a Catholic (or any person of faith) to both be an effective MP and Catholic. While Tony Blair as PM definitely supported legislation which was definitely against the wishes of the Catholic Church, I don't believe it is our business to judge him, there are many millions of Catholics who do not follow all the teachings of the Church, yet we don't judge them. Tony Blair is not an "ordinary person" and therefore perhaps he should be viewed more harshly, however I think his faith and conversion has been a very private thing, and considering that Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'Connor himself brought him into the Church, if he thought it was right, then I do as well.
"An adult faith does not follow the waves of fashion and the latest novelty."
"Having a clear faith, according to the credo of the church, is often labelled as fundamentalism."
Pope Benedict XVI
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Em.

Now his baptism washed away all of his since. But his wife is a C atholic by birth and she knows that she shouldn't have purchased property the way that she did.
Divine Mercy
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Gerard

Timothy
Dec 23 2007, 04:02 PM
there are many millions of Catholics who do not follow all the teachings of the Church, yet we don't judge them.


Timothy

What? Have you not been reading the forum recently ?

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Rose of York
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Gerry beat me to it. I have seem plenty of judgmentalism, on this forum, quite recently.
Keep the Faith!

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Eve
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Em.
Dec 23 2007, 05:17 PM
Now his baptism washed away all of his since. But his wife is a C atholic by birth and she knows that she shouldn't have purchased property the way that she did.

Em, whatever the details were, of Mrs Blair's property purchases, that is irrelevant to her husband's conversion. They are two individuals, each with their own soul and mind.
Howdy Folks. Has anybody seen my husband lately?
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