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| Cash in the Church; The Jesuits | |
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| Topic Started: Monday, 31. August 2009, 18:29 (1,182 Views) | |
| Anne-Marie | Sunday, 13. September 2009, 12:22 Post #106 |
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Erm... Rose... Are you seriously suggesting that where the money comes from... and why... has no bearing on the issue of who should control it and why? And what the consequence of such a crass response (consolidation of funds) by 'The Church' might be? The fact that courts, for specific reasons, then get their hands on it would also be relevant, surely? Dioceses have scandals just as financially damaging as those of orders like the Jesuits in Oregon. It might seem rather hard to discuss the 'consequence' without considering the 'cause'. 
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Anne-Marie FIAT VOLUNTAS DEI | |
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| Rose of York | Sunday, 13. September 2009, 13:19 Post #107 |
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No I am not suggesting that where the money comes from... and why... has no bearing on the issue of who should control it and why? I was trying to tactfully avert the possibility of this thread being dominated by child abuse. Ned's point is relevant. One Catholic organisation, whether it be an Order or DIocese filing for bankruptcy or in the UK going into administration financially damages only itself. Merge them all into one charity, and one branch can take others with it. A diocese can be adversely be affected by mismanagement, it can be sued if (for example) a fire takes place in a crowded building and the fire exits are locked.) The cause of the loss of funds is irrelevant to discussion of merging. There is only one means of absorbing the funds of Orders into those of dioceses and that is to merge the registered charities. If that were to be done, and a diocese went into administration for whatever reason orphanages, care homes, schools and missions run by the religious Orders could cease to function. The administrators would be bound in law to use the assets of the charity to pay all debts. The Church's Canon Law sets out regulations regarding Orders, Dioceses, and their funds. |
  Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards | |
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| John Sweeney | Friday, 6. November 2009, 22:26 Post #108 |
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Another twist in the tale. The High Court has ruled that Middlesbrough Diocese was responsible for the management of a Community Home run by the De La Salle Brothers. This makes the diocese liable to be sued for compensation by the victims of sexual abuse which took place there. The diocese is " disappointed" and is considering an appeal. De la Salle issued a guarded statement saying the ruling confirmed their view. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the case here we have 2 Catholic bodies on either side of a legal dispute with both hoping financial responsibility falls on the other. As things stand, it is likely that the diocese will be sued for millions while a religious order walks away with no liability. From a Church governance point of view, can this be right? John |
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| John Sweeney | Friday, 6. November 2009, 22:43 Post #109 |
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Maybe so OSB but the organisational confusion is at the heart of the issue. John |
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| Ned | Friday, 6. November 2009, 23:07 Post #110 |
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Suppose the uncertainty over who ran this Home had enabled both the diocese and the Order to pass the blame to the other, so that the claimants' case failed ? That could still happen if the diocese succeeded in an appeal. Edited by Ned, Friday, 6. November 2009, 23:07.
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| Mairtin | Friday, 6. November 2009, 23:22 Post #111 |
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We saw something similar in Ireland in the initial reaction to the Ryan Report where some of the religious orders initially tried the line that resposibility for compensating the victims of the terrible abuse should really lie with the Department of Education rather than the Orders who ran the schools. Thank God we are blessed with a first class Archbisop of Dublin in Diarmuid Martin who quickly put a stop to that hypocritical nonsense. |
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| Ned | Friday, 6. November 2009, 23:33 Post #112 |
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Absolutely, John. But 'the Law is not an ass' and it's only a matter of time before the civil law of the various nations makes the Church as a whole responsible for these compensation claims. There was widespread collusion throughout the Church to cover- up child-abuse - effectively to allow it to continue - so the assets of the Church as a whole should be available to provide compensation. Middlesbrough Diocese can pay out £8 million without going bankrupt, but suppose the diocese had been exonerated and the British Province of the De La Salle Brothers had been required to pay out that money. They might not have had that money. They might have gone bankrupt, with their victims not receiving the full amount of compensation, and, as things stand, no claim against the rest of the Catholic Church in the UK or against the Order elsewhere in the world. |
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| Ned | Friday, 6. November 2009, 23:41 Post #113 |
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The Catholic Church and the Irish State were both barbaric. What adds to the disgrace is how little has been done has been done for the broken victims, and how begrudging the State and the Church still are. |
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| Rose of York | Saturday, 7. November 2009, 00:23 Post #114 |
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Including some laity who bleat "why should they be paid for suffering? That is an insult to them." Many of those young boys would have gone on to marry, have families and secure jobs. Instead they grew up into psychiatric wrecks. The highest paid so far to a victim in England was over £600,000. The victim was unaware of the legal case, he needs to be kept in secure accommodation for life, he has gone mad! The claim was submitted on his behalf by solicitors appointed to handle his affairs. The judge ruled that he must have a sum sufficient to fund round the clock qualified mental nurses, and appropriate accommodation. There are those who ask "how come they have come out of the woodwork just when money might be available?" They had no families to turn to. When any of them did complain, even in adult life, they would have been mentally and emotionally beaten down by the covering up culture. How much can a mental wreck take? |
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Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards | |
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1:42 AM Nov 25