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| Married priests? | |
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| Topic Started: Wednesday, 15. November 2006, 13:49 (368 Views) | |
| Rose of York | Wednesday, 15. November 2006, 13:49 Post #1 |
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I am having difficulty working out what is the connection between Archbishop Milingo unlawfully ordaining bishops, and the possibility of married priests returning to priestly ministry. |
  Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards | |
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| nelly k | Wednesday, 15. November 2006, 18:54 Post #2 |
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I think this one ie Priestly Celabcy and Marrage is going to cause major Problems, it did for me When Anglican Married Priests came into the Church,,, I felt it was very hard on our own Celebate Priests, who work often in isolation, but like you Rose I dont know how this ties in with the one mentioned...nelly |
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| Rose of York | Wednesday, 15. November 2006, 19:15 Post #3 |
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Nelly what bothers me is our priests do not just work in isolation, they live alone whether or not it suits them. The new priests know what they are letting themselves in for. I wonder if it has a lot of bearing on reduced vocations? Take the case of older priests. Thirty years ago, a seminary student would expect to go to his first parish, and be under the eye and guidance of an experienced priest. Provided they got on they would be company for each other. It would be about 15 years before he got his own parish, that gave him time to get familiar with his duties. Nowadays it takes about four years to be put in charge of parish, worrying about accounts, laws, regulations, committee Most presbyteries had a housekeeper. The priests never went out shopping for their food, it was cooked and served for them. They didn't even wash their own socks! All of a sudden parishes stopped having housekeepers. Men who had never used a washing machine in their lives had to learn, fast. That explains all the shrunken woolly black sweaters! Imagine life for a man who is not cut out to be alone, he needs company when the day is done. He can go out to a family who have been told their child will die, he might go to the deathbed of a parishioner who was his friend, or to a couple frightened of separating. The priest goes home, locks the door and is alone. To put it crudely, if the priest, aged over 70, has already lost his health, and he gets a tummy infection, who cleans up when he vomits? If he has a heart problem, and gets breathless, goes blue in the face, who dials 999 for an ambulance? The phone rings. His sister has died. Who is there to have a glass of whisky with him (after saying a prayer for the deceased)? It beats me why, in a city where there are three one-priest parishes within a few minutes of each other, they cannot all be allowed to live together in one presbytery. If they don't get on they can do what families do - have a barney when they annoy each other, then forget about it till next time. 
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Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards | |
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| Gerard | Wednesday, 15. November 2006, 20:15 Post #4 |
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Rose, I agree with that. I would like to see married priests, and fully expected to at some time in the future. I do think it would lead to more men answering their vocation. I did not expect Pope Benedict to be the one to bring it in................. who knows? Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Rose of York | Wednesday, 15. November 2006, 20:56 Post #5 |
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Mention hopes of priests to have the option to be celibate or married and the cry goes up "Who would support their families" The answer is simple. Where a typical parish used to have at least three priests, and a housekeeper, four people were fed and housed, and each received a small allowance. If follows that we could support one priest, his wife and the first two children. He might have six children so we need more money. A lot of old presbyteries are big Victorian houses, expensive to maintain. Convert the the old presbytery into apartments. Flog them. Use some of the money to build a new, efficient one or buy the next one on the road that comes up for sale. Invest the balance, and the proceeds from sales of land and presbyteries in closed down parishes, and earmark the income for priests to have a reasonable income. Cancel the Diocesan seminars on Christ and the Environmnent, courses on how to say "Good morning, are you a new parishioner or a visitor", call off the expensive Ministry to Dustbin lids, Seminars on Animal Welfare and all the other unnecessary goings on, and you've saved a whole lotta money. Amalgamate Dioceses. Four Archdioceses, based in London, Bristol, Birmingham, and the Manchester, each Archbishop having little helper bishops dotted about, available for confirmations. Less admin, fewer office staff. More cash saved (and a load of priests out of the office and into the parishes). Anglicans get income from the Church Commissioners who have huge land holdings. But - methodists, baptists, mormons, Jehovah witnesses support their pastors. If they can do it so can we. We might have to consider giving the church a reasonable weekly sum, ie more than the cost of a Sunday paper. We want a meal out, we pay. We want a pint, or a bunch of flowers, we pay. We want clergy. We must pay. |
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Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards | |
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| Derekap | Wednesday, 15. November 2006, 22:37 Post #6 |
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Sadly, in my experience some housekeepers were considered dragons and tended to bully curates if, for example, they didn't turn-up in time for a meal. The curates couldn't of course always give the good reason for their delay. In fairness I must say I always seemed to have no bother but some people were very anti. I think some pps were not always as fatherly as they should have been. In fact for one or two special occasions, the senior curate of one parish asked me what was the programme. I would have thought the pp would have discussed the arrangements with his curates! Incidently, but I say it only for the record, this was well prior to V2. I mention these points not by way of criticism but as incidents in the human life of the parishes. |
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| mattg | Wednesday, 15. November 2006, 22:49 Post #7 |
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WE have rich and poor parishes. Would it not be sensible, for parishes to pay their monies into a central fund and out of that fund, pay priests a salary,according to their responsibilities. matt |
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| Rose of York | Wednesday, 15. November 2006, 23:57 Post #8 |
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Derek I knew a young priest (in the early eighties) who had been close to having a breakdown in his first parish. If the curate was out at mealtimes he got told off. He told her, not to worry, he would tell her if he did not expect to be back, he would cook his own meal when he got back. The housekeeper said she would not allow that, and she kept the freezer locked. The pp sided with the housekeeper. What a miserable existence! If the curate had to go out, and the chippy was closed, he went hungry. The old system of making two or three men, and one housekeeper, house share must have caused terrible friction at times, if just one would not try to get on. That is one of the reasons why I think a lot of priests would be happier with wives. |
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Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards | |
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| Rose of York | Thursday, 16. November 2006, 00:03 Post #9 |
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Yes it would, matt. Individual Christians are supposed to help poorer people. The same rule should apply to parishes. |
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Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards | |
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| Karin | Thursday, 16. November 2006, 13:55 Post #10 |
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I think it's a great idea to have married clergy. After all, some of the Apostles were married (or so we believe). I know priests are supposed to counsel couples from a Scriptural perspective, but until you experience married life, that dimension is lost by a single person. And these days, wives work to help support the family, sometimes part-time and sometimes with full-time jobs. So really, cost-wise, it could be very beneficial for married clergy. There are always the specifics, such as the seal of confession which cannot be broken, time spent away from the family for emergencies or conferences. A wife cannot fully share her husband's life because of those restrictions, but she would know that coming into the marriage, as this is something I know Anglican clergy and fiancees must be counseled on before they take on the challenges. I have lots of friends who are married clergy and I hear a lot about their lives. Most wouldn't change it for the world, but there are some who find it a bit confining at times. On the whole, however, it would be a positive experience. |
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Karin Hvaljen Isus i Marija. Kraljica Mira, moli za nas. "Praised be Jesus and Mary. Queen of Peace, Pray for Us." | |
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| Emee | Thursday, 16. November 2006, 21:43 Post #11 |
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Hi Karin I would have thought it would be no more restrictive than being the wife of a man who works for the Ministry of Defence and who has signed "The Official Secrets Act"...! Having thought about this for many years I'm all for our priests being given the choice of celebacy or marriage. As for finances, my friend is a Mormon and her family give a tithe of their income to their church. Puts me to shame really... :( God Bless Emee x |
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| Karin | Thursday, 16. November 2006, 22:04 Post #12 |
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Hi Emee. Yes, I agree. There are restrictions on many careers. And I also agree, a man should be given the choice between celebacy and being married. It would be a fresh approach these days. |
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Karin Hvaljen Isus i Marija. Kraljica Mira, moli za nas. "Praised be Jesus and Mary. Queen of Peace, Pray for Us." | |
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| Rose of York | Thursday, 16. November 2006, 22:09 Post #13 |
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Emme has your mormon friend told you some of the tithes are set apart for church members in need? No mormon ever need suffer poverty. Re priests who applied for laicisation, and are now practising Catholic married men. I used to say "No. They should not be allowed back. That would be a bad example to young people, married or contemplating marriage." I have thought about this, and wonder how many made the vow of celibacy without full knowledge. There are priests, still active, who went to junior seminary at the age of 12. At a certain point they had to reside with the parish priest during the vacations. As they grew up they never had girl friends, and were expected to protect themselves from temptation. Many must have made the vow of celibacy in all honesty, but were not sufficiently mature to consider the implications, due to the sheltered life they had during teens and early twenties. Marriage vows are declared nul and void, if immaturity led to an ill-informed decision. I wonder if the same rule could be applied to clergy? Also there is the matter of free will. There was much family and parish pressure to continue to ordination. Some people called men who had left seminary "spoiled priests" and treated them as though they had done wrong. It would not bother me if my parish were to be sent a priest who had made an immature decision, been ordained, and then realising how wrong he had been, had properly applied for laicisation, it had been granted, and he had later been allowed to return complete with wife and family. |
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Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards | |
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| Rose of York | Thursday, 16. November 2006, 22:24 Post #14 |
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It's easy for bishops and cardinals in Rome to make decisions like this. How many Masses a day are there in Rome? They are spoilt for choice. Soon there will be just one a week within an hour's journey of my home. |
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Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards | |
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| Emee | Thursday, 16. November 2006, 22:37 Post #15 |
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Hi Rose I would be ok with the priest returning with family also. And I agree with your comparison to marriage vows and annulments. No, I didn't know a proportion of Mormon tithes went to their poor. I assumed it just went to their head office (or whatever it is) at Salt Lake City. I would like to think that marriage might cheer some of our priests up a bit... :) Emee P.S. Sorry I hadn't read your last post when I wrote this... However, it doesn't change the way I feel so I'm posting it anyway... 
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