Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We hope you enjoy your visit!
You're currently viewing Catholic CyberForum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our online cyberparish, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.
Join our community!
Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of abuse, personal attacks, blasphemy, racism, threats, harrassment, and crude or sexually-explicit language.
If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Locked Topic
Extraordinary happenings
Topic Started: Friday, 3. July 2009, 02:31 (358 Views)
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
http://www.indcatholicnews.com/news.php?viewStory=14560

Independent Catholic News
 
London parish holds celebration for all ministries

Steve Bethell, from the parish of St Peter in Chains, Finsbury Park, north London, writes:

As I am sure happens in every parish, each year we invite our Eucharistic Ministers to come together, in our case at the evening Mass to mark the beginning of the 40 hours Exposition, to be re-commissioned in their important ministry.

However, as St Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 12, we all, though different, form part of the Body of Christ and all those parts are necessary to the functioning of the body and we had become increasingly uncomfortable that, by recognising one specific ministry in this way, we could be seen as regarding it as somehow more important than other service given in the parish.

Having scratched our heads about how to overcome this, the solution, in the end, was simple. We identified, as far as possible, the individuals in all the groups in the parish who carry out some form of ministry to the parish whether it is liturgical, pastoral, spiritual or practical – from Musicians to Cleaners via the Soup Run and Catechists. We wrote inviting them personally to the Mass as well as putting invitations in the newsletter, knowing that we did not have all the names.

After the homily, all the ministers were asked to stand – and there must have been over 100 people standing. Using a modified version of the text we used for the Eucharistic Ministers, everyone renewed their commitment to their chosen ministries and was re-commissioned by the PP to continue for a further year. Everyone had been asked to complete a card giving the details of their ministries and at the end of the commissioning everyone was asked to bring their card and place it before the altar; their service symbolically becoming part of the offerings brought to the Eucharistic table. The cards remained through the 40 hours Exposition and the weekend masses celebrating the feast of the Body and Blood of Christ as a visible sign to the parish.

Feedback was positive and this will now become an annual event. In the autumn, we hope to renew our focus on the talent in our parish. At the beginning of the year we ran a Planned Giving campaign and in the autumn we hope to do something similar but, instead of asking people to reflect on what they give in monetary terms, get them to reflect on and celebrate the talents God has given them and ask them whether there is some way that they could offer some of their time and talents to the parish. Part of the campaign will, we hope, be a re-run of a parish ‘Open Day’ - part bring-and-share lunch and part ‘Freshers’ fair’ where all the parish groups have a stall. People can find out more about what goes on and, if they want to, join the group.



Reproduced in full, by permission
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Am I odd, for finding this tacky, unnecessary and inappropriate in the context of the Holy Mass?

If I am chief notice board tidier upper, I complete a card giving the details of my ministry. After the homily I stand, along with the other 100-odd "ministers" Using a modified version of the text used for the Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion, we all renew their commitment to our chosen ministries and are re-commissioned by the PP to continue for a further year. At the end of the commissioning everyone is asked to bring their card and place it before the altar; their service symbolically becoming part of the offerings brought to the Eucharistic table. The cards remain through the 40 hours Exposition and the weekend masses celebrating the feast of the Body and Blood of Christ as a visible sign to the parish.

Spsre me! Would I need to be commissioned to tidy up a notice board for a further year? Ooh, if anybody else noticed a drawing pin had fallen on the floor, if they dared pick it up I would politely inform them that I and I alone am commissioned to carry out such a worthy task.

How can the services of parishioners, making coffee, providing music, serving on a committee, cleaning the church be part of the offerings taken to the altar? Just what do they want? Is not the sacrifice of Christ sufficient? Does the Mass need extras?

Cards on the altar through the 40 hours Exposition and the weekend masses celebrating the feast of the Body and Blood of Christ as a visible sign to the parish? They have a monstrance, they have the Body and Blood of Christ, someone decided little cards would enhance the occasion.

I would suggest that if a celebration of parishioners' practical contribution is considered advisable, it be done with a good shindig in the parish hall, AFTER Mass.

Would it be appropriate to write on one's card

MINISTRY - PRAYING
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Joe Valente
Member Avatar

Sorry Rose, but I disagree with you on this. I think that it is a wonderful idea. Here is a parish giving recognition to all who offer some service. they are showing that there are many ways to serve the parish, each way valuable of itself. Everyone a servant to the same Master and everyone equal. Everyone committing themselves to at least one more year of service.
Then their service is recognised by the whole parish by publicly offering it to God at the altar, praying for those who have served and praying for their work and asking God's Blessing on them and the work. Then the "stalls at the fair" will give all the parishioners an opportunity to offer their services.
I think that it is a great idea and should kill of all thoughts of elitism or "green cardigan brigade"
What doth it profit a man if he gains the whole world but suffers the loss of his soul
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Joe I agree with you that this is a wonderful celebration of Parish ministry and recognition of the contributions made by all.

I do have one reservation which is that EM are commissioned by the Bishop and so although the renewal of their ministry can and should form part of a parish celebration it should also follow the form prescribed by the Diocesan Authority and it would appear, from the story posted, that the ritual was adapted for the integration of the other ministries. EMs and Readers are ministers within the official celebration of the Mass and are governed by liturgical laws but the tea makers and flower arrangers are not.
So by all means have a Mass to celebrate the other ministries of the parish but do not neglect the official procedures for vetting, training and renewing EMs.
Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
My posting was not to object to peoples' input being recognized, and all being equally valued. I just do not like the manner in which it was done, during the Mass. If asked for a suggestion, I would say "best after Mass" so it does not distract from the Sacrifice".
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Mrs.Pogle
from the woods
Quote:
 
Sorry Rose, but I disagree with you on this. I think that it is a wonderful idea.

Yes, me too ~ and I have no problem with it taking place during the Mass. Each year in my Parish, at Easter, we (EMCs, Readers and Caechists) stand and recommit to our ministries (Yes, I am one of those oft-criticised EMCs!) as our Priests do at the catherdral in Shrewsbury.
Edited by Mrs.Pogle, Friday, 3. July 2009, 15:24.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Derekap
Member Avatar

Sorry Rose, for once I disgree with you and support the opposition but, naturally, you are entitled to your opinion. Whilst I realise that EMsHC officially renew their vows during Holy Mass on Holy Thursday it would be inappropriate to leave them out during such an event. I have not come across any ceremony for Readers or Catechists apart from that which started this debate. My reading started one day when the Celebrant on his way from the Sacristy to the Sanctuary looked at me and shook his head towards the lecturn because nobody was reading the Entrance Antiphon. Though known, I wasn't vetted or trained.
Derekap
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
To clarify matters:

I have no problem with the Church having Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion. In most parishes they are essential. I acknowledge that it is good to recognise the services given voluntarily, in liturgical and material matters. It is right and proper that no one service should be treated as superior to any other.

My problem is, that this was a major break during the celebration of Mass.
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Quicunque vult

I agree with Rose. No problem with contributions being recognised, perhaps best at a parish social, but please, please not during Mass!!

QV
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Joe Valente
Member Avatar

Do we not have a break during a requiem Mass whilst the priest gives us the history of the deceased ?

Do we not have a break during Mass for the Homily

Do we not take up the collection during Mass

Do we not have a break during Mass for the Church Notices to be read to us

Do we not have a break during Mass to allow visiting Missionaries to make their annual appeals

Is it during Mass that we call Christ down amongst us, what better time to ask His Blessing, what better time to present these good people to Him.
What doth it profit a man if he gains the whole world but suffers the loss of his soul
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Joe, there is a break during most funeral Masses, for the history of the deceased, but I recall a series of articles in the Universe newspaper about this. Apparently this should not happen, the Reqiuem must be focused upon the soul of the deceased, and the eulogy given later at the gathering of family, friends and parishioenrs.

The homily is the time when the priest explains the scriptural readings of the day, it is part of the Mass.

The collection is not about people, it is about our offerings for God's work.

The notices are announced after the Mass has ended.

Yes, we have a break during Mass for missionary appeals. You got me there, Joe!

As for presenting these good people, why not do it immediately after Mass? Nothing must be added to or taken away from the Mass, Vatican instructions. Give an inch, some take a mile.

I have been thinking about the people who have nothing to write on a card, no service for which they will be commissioned by the priest. Many of them would serve if they could. Some really do not have the freedom to contribute in a practical manner, some offer and are told "we don't need anybody, thanks very much." They will feel left out, and some will feel quite dejected.

Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Joe Valente
Member Avatar

"The collection is not about people, it is about our offerings for God's work."

And this was not about people it was about their offerings for God's work, which, considering His actions in the temple and His remarks about mammon, He might appreciate more

"The notices are announced after the Mass has ended."
Not where I come from. Here they are read after the homily.

"As for presenting these good people, why not do it immediately after Mass? Nothing must be added to or taken away from the Mass, Vatican instructions. Give an inch, some take a mile. "
Nothing is being added, just the same thing as people parading up the aisle with the offerings. This is another form of offering
What doth it profit a man if he gains the whole world but suffers the loss of his soul
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
At Mass I prefer to focus totally upon God, without distractions. Others are happy about this event.

I have no more points to put forward, and hot weather knocks the argumentativeness out of me, so I propose I, and those who do not share my views on this, agree to differ.

Life would be boring if everybody agreed about everything.

Pax
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
CARLO
Member Avatar

Derekap
Friday, 3. July 2009, 17:24
........... I have not come across any ceremony for Readers or Catechists apart from that which started this debate. My reading started one day when the Celebrant on his way from the Sacristy to the Sanctuary looked at me and shook his head towards the lecturn because nobody was reading the Entrance Antiphon. Though known, I wasn't vetted or trained.
You are speaking of better times some years ago Derek.

Now we have special 'training' and compulsory meetings and 'optional' retreats and 'awaydays'.

Soon I fear we will have competency based interviews and assessment centres as well as e-learning packages, endless reviews and refresher courses.

And they say they have no time to visit folk at home!

:sotc:

De profundis
Out of the depths

CARLO
Judica me Deus
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Quote:
 
66. The reader is instituted to proclaim the readings from Scripture, with the exception of the gospel. He may also announce the intentions for the general intercessions and, in the absence of the psalmist, sing or read the psalm between the readings.

The reader has his own proper function in the eucharistic celebration and should exercise this even though ministers of a higher rank may be present.

Those who exercise the ministry of reader, even if they have not received institution, must be truly qualified and carefully prepared in order that the faithful will develop a warm and lively love for Scripture [53] from listening to the reading of the sacred texts. General Instruction of the Roman Missal (4th Edition)


Picking readers from the crowd and at the last minute is I fear an all to common practice however it is a bad habit.
I am tired of listening to mumbles, dramatic impersonators, speed merchants and a whole host of other faults common among bad readers.

It also puzzles me that some of you object to the training of readers and the implementation of the rules in the general instruction to the Roman Missal that they should be qualified to exorcise what is an important ministry in the church.

As for taking, a break to recognise the great variety of ministries offered by members of the parish I think Joe is correct in pointing out that what is being done is recognising the offering of the people’s talents to God. In a parish where I was, a curate we had a high number of people who were unemployed and for them to have put money on the plate would have been a great burden but they offered their skills to the parish, even if it was mowing the lawn. I would have been delighted if the PP had had a Mass in which their offering to the parish could have been properly acknowledged. After all, there were enough people over coffee after mass tutting at the lack of money in the collection. It would have been wholly appropriate if they had been required to acknowledge that the person placing a card on the alter was actually symbolic of the widows mite and in real terms to the parish far more welcome than the £1 that the tutters had spared from their bounty.

Gods people offeing thier services before the alter should never be regarded as a distraction for how can we focus on God if we ignore the greatest gift that he has given to creation, people. As the old song said
"Bless them all the long and the short and the Tall, bless them all!"
Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Archived Discussions · Next Topic »
Locked Topic