"thinking like an adult"

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"thinking like an adult"
Topic Started: Tuesday, 30. June 2009, 13:43 (650 Views)
Rose of York	Monday, 13. July 2009, 19:20 Post #46
Administrator Posts: 14,559 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	william of bow Monday, 13. July 2009, 19:12 Thanks for that Rose - you mean, that place in the Balkans. No William, I mean "Our Lady of Surbiton" at the Community of Divine Innocence http://s10.zetaboards.com/Catholic_CyberForum/topic/105515/1/ and in Ireland "Christina Gallagher's "House of Prayer". http://s10.zetaboards.com/Catholic_CyberForum/topic/105658/1/
	$Posted Image$ Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards


Ned	Monday, 13. July 2009, 19:46 Post #47
Posts: 674 Group: Members Member #61 Joined: March 1, 2007	william of bow Monday, 13. July 2009, 19:15 Almost certainly not true Ned. A year or two back it made the news, William. Officer Cadets were one of the categories involved.



Ned	Monday, 13. July 2009, 20:04 Post #48
Posts: 674 Group: Members Member #61 Joined: March 1, 2007	william of bow Monday, 13. July 2009, 19:12 As also their criticism of Catholics praying to Our Lady. Hi William, An informed Catholic aware of the Communion of Saints will pray to Our Blessed Mother that she might add her prayers to those of the intercessor in a petition to Almighty God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Unfortunately that is not the style in which some Catholics today pray to Our Lady. They pray to her as if she is God, with Our Blessed Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, true God and true man, if He is mentioned at all, referred to as if He is just Her errant-boy. I'm not inventing this - I have even heard it in the real presence of Jesus Christ at an Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament. Mater Dei or Mater Dea - the difference is only one letter but it's that very big difference between being a Christian or being a pagan Regards Ned



Ned	Monday, 13. July 2009, 20:18 Post #49
Posts: 674 Group: Members Member #61 Joined: March 1, 2007	william of bow Monday, 13. July 2009, 19:12 praying the Rosary is nothing except a cultural accretion to you. Be Fair, William. John is a very intelligent man and his private prayers to God are a private matter between the two of them. The rosary beads can be a great aid to concentration if they are used properly, by someone with their brain in gear. But they are just a 'cultural accretion' when they're misused by ignorant people as a substitute for meaningful prayer - as an aid for slipping quietly into a little trance. It's the difference between contemplative meditation and yoga-style transendental meditation (viz day-dreaming). Regards Ned Edited by Ned, Monday, 13. July 2009, 20:20.



draig	Monday, 13. July 2009, 21:07 Post #50
Posts: 116 Group: Members Member #224 Joined: March 23, 2009	william of bow ...And Protestants only 'look down their noses at it' because they are too ignorant to find out what venerating relics is all about. As also their criticism of Catholics praying to Our Lady. William, I went to Malta in May and visited a Marian Shrine (Our Lady of Ta' Pinu) in Gozo. Being good tourists we bought the guide book - 'Ta' Pinu Shrine... The Pilgrims' Haven' (ISBN 978-99932-81-43-0) 2nd Edition - revised and edited, September 2008. On page 144 of this book is a photo of Pope John Paul II and the caption for the photo reads 'Pope John Paul II worshipping Our Lady Ta' Pinu' Now, you were mentioning that Protestant criticism of Catholics praying to Our Lady was because of their ignorance... Edited to change bok title from 'Heaven' to 'Haven' - serves me right for not wearing my glasses! Edited by draig, Tuesday, 14. July 2009, 17:21.



John Sweeney	Monday, 13. July 2009, 21:21 Post #51
Posts: 1,853 Group: Members Member #68 Joined: March 20, 2007	I would like to say that I have not argued that anything is a "cultural accretion". I have been pondering as to what the Archbishop of Dublin might mean by this term and Ned has been giving his views on various aspects of existing catholic devotions. My distrust of the veneration of relics predates this discussion by a long way. The Rosary is not a devotion that appeals to me either but I appreciate its power for many people and the inspiration that it is to them John



CARLO	Monday, 13. July 2009, 23:51 Post #52
Posts: 1,691 Group: Members Member #27 Joined: September 28, 2006	Ned Monday, 13. July 2009, 20:04 Unfortunately that is not the style in which some Catholics today pray to Our Lady. They pray to her as if she is God, with Our Blessed Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, true God and true man, if He is mentioned at all, referred to as if He is just Her errant-boy. I'm not inventing this - I have even heard it in the real presence of Jesus Christ at an Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament. Mater Dei or Mater Dea - the difference is only one letter but it's that very big difference between being a Christian or being a pagan Regards Ned Well honestly what exaggeration! No doubt a few Catholics might do this in ignorance but no doubt others equally ignorant say all sorts of things when they pray and imagine all sorts of things about Catholicism that are not true. In the scale of things these are minor faults. Our Blessed Lady has a very special place in the Catholic Church and always will have. If any Catholics are squeamish or embarassed about this they should ask themselves why? Miserere nobis Have mercy on us CARLO
	Judica me Deus


Ned	Tuesday, 14. July 2009, 16:34 Post #53
Posts: 674 Group: Members Member #61 Joined: March 1, 2007	CARLO Monday, 13. July 2009, 23:51 Well honestly what exaggeration! No doubt a few Catholics might do this in ignorance but no doubt others equally ignorant say all sorts of things when they pray and imagine all sorts of things about Catholicism that are not true. In the scale of things these are minor faults. Hi Carlo, You are right when you say that there are only a few Catholics promoting these odd ideas. The trouble is that they are very domineering and persuasive. Over the last few decades there has been a collapse in the membership of Catholic lay organisations so that some very funny people have been able to take up leadship roles. Regards Ned



Powerofone	Tuesday, 14. July 2009, 20:21 Post #54
Posts: 765 Group: Members Member #210 Joined: October 2, 2008	Rose of York Monday, 13. July 2009, 19:20 william of bow Monday, 13. July 2009, 19:12 Thanks for that Rose - you mean, that place in the Balkans. No William, I mean "Our Lady of Surbiton" at the Community of Divine Innocence http://s10.zetaboards.com/Catholic_CyberForum/topic/105515/1/ and in Ireland "Christina Gallagher's "House of Prayer". http://s10.zetaboards.com/Catholic_CyberForum/topic/105658/1/ You think that's bad, what about the holy tree stump? http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0713/1224250544811.html If that's not pagan, I don't know what is.



Rose of York	Tuesday, 14. July 2009, 21:02 Post #55
Administrator Posts: 14,559 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	Powerofone Tuesday, 14. July 2009, 20:21 think that's bad, what about the holy tree stump? http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0713/1224250544811.html If that's not pagan, I don't know what is. The good news is, the parish priest is standing firm against the hysteria. Quote: Frank Marham (79) is not happy with Fr Russell. �He�s against it,� he said of the fuss over the tree stump. Frank is not. He regretted that candles and flowers left at the stump as offerings the night before had been removed overnight. It was the same yesterday morning. �If it was left to Fr Russell it would be gone,� Frank said. Standing by the tree stump, he told another devotee the story of how someone had gone to Fr Russell during the week testifying belief that the tree stump featured the madonna and child and the priest�s response had been to hold up a piece of wood and say: �Do you see Michael Jackson in that?��Sure that was hardly right at all?� said Frank.
	$Posted Image$ Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards


Deleted User	Wednesday, 15. July 2009, 08:28 Post #56
Deleted User	Ned Tuesday, 14. July 2009, 16:34 You are right when you say that there are only a few Catholics promoting these odd ideas. The trouble is that they are very domineering and persuasive. Over the last few decades there has been a collapse in the membership of Catholic lay organisations so that some very funny people have been able to take up leadship roles. Regards Ned You have a point Ned but I suspect you can more than hold your own and if these " Very Funny People" are corrupting the proper reverence and devotional practice in your area, find a few allies and launch an alternative. Most 'Funny Groups' exist because they fill the vacuum left by the old guard who have retired or passed on to their eternal reward. Some have retired form the active list in the parish after having given very loyal service and now watch with sadness as others make a mess of things, while they worn out in the lord's service have no energy to get back in the fray so I understand that things are never simple and allies are not always easy to find. Don't give up the gentle pressure of non-cooperation and general awkwardness when the cheerful enthusiast suggests you would enjoy joining in.
Deleted User


Ned	Wednesday, 15. July 2009, 19:50 Post #57
Posts: 674 Group: Members Member #61 Joined: March 1, 2007	Penfold Wednesday, 15. July 2009, 08:28 Most 'Funny Groups' exist because they fill the vacuum left by the old guard who have retired or passed on to their eternal reward. Some have retired form the active list in the parish after having given very loyal service and now watch with sadness as others make a mess of things, while they worn out in the lord's service have no energy to get back in the fray Hi Penfold, Thanks for your understanding. Like most people I don't want trouble, and I'm easily scared off. Obviously I can only generalise so as to be safe from libel - if I were to give any real-life instances they might be recognised by other Catholics within the London conurbation's catholic/irish community. But there may be as many as a hundred laypeople about moving round the parishes and lay organisations - being catholic or irish as it suits them - sometimes moving between London and Ireland - and if one PP or one organisation gets rid of them then they're soon seen somewhere else. There are little groups with hidden agendas and then again there are the little petty con-men who get free accommodation, or rook old people in various ways that I'm sure you're aware of already. The old grapevine isn't there any more - and there's no centralised way of blacklisting these people. I can only bluster - I can't explain myself - I wouldn't risk the libel. Regards Ned



tomais	Monday, 20. July 2009, 21:49 Post #58
Posts: 248 Group: Members Member #30 Joined: October 2, 2006	To the point- being an adult one has to be like a child.To be a true artist one has to draw like a child-Paul Klee



Joe Valente	Monday, 20. July 2009, 22:02 Post #59
Posts: 403 Group: Members Member #227 Joined: April 3, 2009	Like most people I don't want trouble, and I'm easily scared off. Ned, I believe the first bit but I truly doubt the last bit.
	What doth it profit a man if he gains the whole world but suffers the loss of his soul


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