Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We hope you enjoy your visit!
You're currently viewing Catholic CyberForum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our online cyberparish, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.
Join our community!
Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of abuse, personal attacks, blasphemy, racism, threats, harrassment, and crude or sexually-explicit language.
If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Qualified Catholics?
Topic Started: Wednesday, 27. May 2009, 19:38 (1,326 Views)
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Quicunque vult
Monday, 1. June 2009, 21:24
Quote:
 
I have come across quite a few instances of parishes breaking the law regarding food hygiene, health and safety, disabled access, data protection, safeguarding and alcohol licensing and, for parish clubs, VAT and Corporation Tax. Our priests need a basic understanding of their legal responsibilities.


While these are not unimportant, there are some much more important things than these secular concerns. Do our priests have a proper understanding and love of Scripture and the sacred liturgy? Does their knowledge of theology enable them to correct error and to instruct the faithful correctly? How are they able to bring people into an understanding of the Lord and (more importantly) into relationship with him?

Quote:
 
We do have to be careful about accepting secular priorities too readily.

The Catholic Church is subject to civil and criminal law. Ignorance of the law is no defense. As registered charities we receive generous tax concessions. The least we can do in return is to co-operate with the government, provided such co-operation is not against the law of God.
It should be safe to assume that our priests have a proper understanding and love of Scripture and the sacred liturgy, due to their seminary education, and it should develop during his lifetime.

Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Quicunque vult
Monday, 1. June 2009, 21:24
We do have to be careful about accepting secular priorities too readily. Some of these - thinking especially of the "equality" agenda - conflict with teaching of the Church and will take us down the dark alleys of relativism if unchallenged.

Some of the equality agenda is immoral. Much of it is essential for peoples' well-being, corporal and spiritual. Our priests do need basic knowledge of their legal responsibilities.
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
PJD


"I don't think I understand your question, PJD. What failure? And what has class to do with it?"

I think I was at cross purposes with you here William. My fault. I have re-read your contribution - and now assume you are speaking of the future, not the past or recent past. My measure was towards success or failure and a bit of both.

PJD
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

In the military people, mock us chaplains as having an easy time when it comes to keeping up with developments. They say we have,

"1 AP and no amendments" ( An AP Is an Air Publication and the point is that once one is issued it is amended regularly and you have a boring task of updating the folder and learning the impact of the amendment). Our AP is the Bible and QV is right to say that the love of the scriptures should be at the heart of our daily ministry. To this end, we have our Daily Office (Breviary).
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Penfold
Monday, 1. June 2009, 21:48
Our AP is the Bible and QV is right to say that the love of the scriptures should be at the heart of our daily ministry. To this end, we have our Daily Office (Breviary).
Your breviary is prayer, not regulations.

Agreed, a chaplain's priority must be the spiritual, but I take it you had to undergo basic officer training and must obey Queens Regulations. Leave a highly classified file lying around at the back of the church, you'll soon find out what happens. :rofl: So, I say understanding of secular regulations does matter.

Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
PJD

Yes Rose, but Penfold possesses the great advantage of being in the thick of secular thinking, practice, and mode of behaviour etc. Parish priests do not have this facility i.e. mixing with the rough and tumble of natural behaviour - or at least every day, where good example is invariably noticed much more even perhaps than within the circles of the local church. He goes to the Naffi (sorry spelt that wrong) - whereas the parish or curate, sometimes that is, goes to the coffee room where everyone is polite (quite rightly so) but conversation can be dull - no Sun p3 there (laugh) - not that p3 would matter very much in the local greasy spoon - its the back pages and Chelsea at the moment.

PJD
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Rose of York
Monday, 1. June 2009, 21:56
Agreed, a chaplain's priority must be the spiritual, but I take it you had to undergo basic officer training and must obey Queens Regulations. Leave a highly classified file lying around at the back of the church, you'll soon find out what happens. :rofl: So, I say understanding of secular regulations does matter.

:cannon: Yes, I am well versed in QR's, the Highway Code, forum rules :admin: , DVD operating instructions and a whole host of ancillary skills but what qualifies me as a Catholic is my faith and fulfilment of my baptismal promises.
Why should the priest be responsible for food safety and hygiene, this is part of the problem that people assume that the poor old priest ha to do everything but if the Parish want to run a social then let them take responsibility for knowing which coloured chopping block or Knife should be used. I’ll focus on making sure the Liturgy is meaningful and satisfying and that the Sacraments are properly administered and people are given the correct instruction in the faith.

I am very good at marching, as you would have seen if you had been on the IMP in Lourdes, I am very good at first aid and in body armour and helmet, I look far better than I would in a Berretta and Cope. The point is we all have a variety of skills but the proliferation of meaningless certificates, diplomas and ridicules degrees has added not one jot to the quality of life or depth of faith. A great many people have bits paper to say they can do a job but no common sense to wash their hands after going to the toilet, which is perhaps the only place the paper might have been useful. :yahoo:
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

:yeah: Nicely put Penfold.

William,frankly, I've met so many people holding pieces of paper stating that they are qualified in a specific area, but who are completely unable to actually do the job they are "qualified" for, that I have scant respect for said pieces of paper. QBE is the way to go.
KatyA
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Penfold
Monday, 1. June 2009, 22:30
Why should the priest be responsible for food safety and hygiene, this is part of the problem that people assume that the poor old priest ha to do everything but if the Parish want to run a social then let them take responsibility for knowing which coloured chopping block or Knife should be used. I’ll focus on making sure the Liturgy is meaningful and satisfying and that the Sacraments are properly administered and people are given the correct instruction in the faith.
Moaning about the priests not finding out what skills and experience are available in their parishes, is one of my favourite bandwagons. Whether we like it or not, our priests are MANAGERS. If environmental health trace food poisoning to a parish event, the priest who will face the music. If, instead of being a priest, he had set up as a manufacturer of widgets, he would, presumably, concentrate upon the engineering, and not attempt to know everything about everything, but if he had a grain of sense he would enquire about his legal responsibilities and ensure that in certain fields, he was making use of the services of people who do have the necessary expertise. My business was accountancy, I had to learn about my legal responsibilities, so I attended a three week course. It didn't hurt and it stood me in good stead.

I agree a parish priest's responsibility is the spiritual and pastoral welfare of his parishioners, but those who give responsibilities to the nearest willing person, irrespective of competence, take risks.

Some bishops thought it was acceptable for them to conduct investigations into criminal activity, were blissfully unaware that they should call in the police. Look where that got us!



Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Penfold
Monday, 1. June 2009, 22:30
A great many people have bits paper to say they can do a job but no common sense to wash their hands after going to the toilet, which is perhaps the only place the paper might have been useful. :yahoo:
I've gotta get this one in:

A great many people have been to seminary, and can't preach.

:rofl:
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
I once came across an interesting booklet about parish management. It was on a diocesan website, and was for parish priests. The booklet gave directions about secular regulations, stuff like "if you employ paid staff, contact Inland Revenue, about being an employer." All the information a priest needs about secular management was in that one little booklet, which would be more use than any course, which can be forgotten, or any piece of paper saying Fr X has done the course, got the certificate.
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Rose of York
Monday, 1. June 2009, 23:07
Penfold
Monday, 1. June 2009, 22:30
A great many people have bits paper to say they can do a job but no common sense to wash their hands after going to the toilet, which is perhaps the only place the paper might have been useful. :yahoo:
I've gotta get this one in:

A great many people have been to seminary, and can't preach.

:rofl:
:bravo: Thus prooving that you can pass exams, get the paperwork and still be useless.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
In the early days of this forum, Patrick and I got certificates certifying we are ministers of religion. All it took was a few mouse clicks, to get our documentation by email.

:rofl:
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Penfold
Monday, 1. June 2009, 23:12
Rose of York
Monday, 1. June 2009, 23:07
I've gotta get this one in:

A great many people have been to seminary, and can't preach.

:rofl:
:bravo: Thus prooving that you can pass exams, get the paperwork and still be useless.
I'll tell you something else. I know a man who went to Bible school. He commits sins.

:lol:
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Rose of York
Monday, 1. June 2009, 23:05
Whether we like it or not, our priests are MANAGERS. If environmental health trace food poisoning to a parish event, the priest who will face the music. If, instead of being a priest, he had set up as a manufacturer of widgets, he would, presumably, concentrate upon the engineering, and not attempt to know everything about everything, but if he had a grain of sense he would enquire about his legal responsibilities and ensure that in certain fields, he was making use of the services of people who do have the necessary expertise. My business was accountancy, I had to learn about my legal responsibilities, so I attended a three week course. It didn't hurt and it stood me in good stead.
Actually we are not, Managers we are Priest, Prophets and Kings. but you are right so we shall shut down the parish while the priests goes of on a course while the laity go on moaning that he did not chose them to do the job.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Archived Discussions · Next Topic »
Add Reply