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| Qualified Catholics? | |
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| Topic Started: Wednesday, 27. May 2009, 19:38 (1,327 Views) | |
| Fortunatus | Thursday, 28. May 2009, 22:06 Post #16 |
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Not the "professionally qualified parishioners", that's for sure. I may be over-optimistic and it may take more than my lifetime but I actually see a ray of light in the current MPs' expenses nonsense. In some respects over the last couple of decades and most especially during the tenure of the present government, all of us have had our snouts in the trough, even in the smallest of ways. I don't necessarily mean in financial terms but there has been a culture which very few of us have resisted which is typified by the idea that half of the population must go to university or we must have some special qualification or we must have a posh title. We have become obsessed with our own importance or our own self-importance and I think (hope) that this conflagration will make us stop and look closely at ourselves as well as at our MPs. If so we can get back to practising humility and start being publicans again instead of pharisees. Just a thought.
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| Rose of York | Thursday, 28. May 2009, 22:54 Post #17 |
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I share Fortunatus' misgivings. Those who are qualified may consider themselves to be in charge of the unqualified peasants, blissfully unaware that one will be well versed in this aspect of parish life, another well versed in something else. Did The Little Flower have a Foundation Degree in Pastoral summat or other?
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| PJD | Friday, 29. May 2009, 07:46 Post #18 |
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"Did The Little Flower have a Foundation Degree in Pastoral summat or other?" Exactly Rose PJD |
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| Ned | Friday, 29. May 2009, 19:24 Post #19 |
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But the Little Flower was in a convent. She wasn't running around a parish. This course would be very suitable for nuns working as 'Parish Sisters'. And intime it will, hopefully set a standard for Parish Sisters and other people working in parishes as Pastoral Assistants. A standard is badly needed. This degree-course is not the answer, but it will provide a contribution towards the answer. |
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| Deleted User | Friday, 29. May 2009, 20:57 Post #20 |
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Oliver Joseph St John Gogarty (August 17, 1878 - September 22, 1957) was an Irish physician and ear surgeon, poet and author, one of the most prominent Dublin wits. Once while performing a difficult operation the theatre sister was heard to mutter, "May Jesus, Mary and Joseph help us," to which he good doctor replied, " Thank you sister, but I don't want any unqualified assistance."
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| Rose of York | Friday, 29. May 2009, 22:21 Post #21 |
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There have been pilot schemes for parishes without resident priests, to be managed by pastoral assistants. They do need a certain amount of knowledge. This course is not aimed at persons formally appointed to positions of responsibility and/or authority.
We could end up with Modom, BA (Past Missn) telling the mandated minister to get lost, on the grounds that "You may have authorisation from the bishop, but you need my advice and guidance, your dedication, lifetime experience and humility are no match for my degree qualification. |
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| Rose of York | Friday, 29. May 2009, 22:28 Post #22 |
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![]() ![]() What's that reader doing on my perch?
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Ned | Saturday, 30. May 2009, 21:06 Post #23 |
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It's interesting you should say that, Rose. I can't find it on the web now but I remember reading that US missionary organisations that send highly qualified, highly specialist, experts to do certain perilous work in developing countries have arranged with a university for that work to earn the missionaries Ph.D's. |
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| william of bow | Monday, 1. June 2009, 13:11 Post #24 |
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Sorry Fortunatus but you are simply wrong as well as being out of touch. In the 21st Century we find ourselves in a knowledge economy. Blood, sweat and muscle are not required anymore. What the economy needs are workers who have knowledge and understanding of what they do, and why they do it and, more importantly, how they could do it better (sometimes referred to as 'reflective practice'). It is nothing whatsoever to do with what we as individuals might want, much less about personal Ego. In fact, many would be employees might be put off by knowing that before they start, or while in their probationery period, they are required to, for example complete three or four modules of an NVQ Level 3 Social Care module (a very 'basic' knowledge level, believe me). Qualifications also make it easier to regulate an industry. The trend now is to seek qualified workers, then to set up a database/register of all those so qualified. This is what is happening in social care right now. Over the past twenty years there has been a push (rightly in my view) to get qualifications throughout the social care workforce (Diplomas in Social Work right down to NVQ Level 3); then establish the General Social Care Council which started, four years ago to register all qualified social workers (25,000). The next stage will be to start registering all 350,000 'social care workers'. Social Workers cannot practice as social workers unless registered by the GSCC. Nor can they call themselves social workers unless so registered. It will be the same for all other care workers soon. The same is happening in the teaching and child care industries. Elsewhere, banking, finance, construction, logistics, retailing; nearly all require at least some basic 'qualification' from the workforce, often NVQ level a competency based and practical qualification, rather than an 'Academic' road. Reality now is that many if not all of those starting out in their employment paths today, will have two or even more further career changes before they retire. I leave you with a thought: The illiterate of the 21st Century will not be those who can neither read nor write; no, the illiterates of our time will be those who cannot or will not learn, learn, and then learn again. William |
William of Bow[G.K.Chesterton] Check my Blog: http://www.williamonthehill.typepad.co.uk | |
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| Rose of York | Monday, 1. June 2009, 15:10 Post #25 |
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Is it possible for a parish priest's education to come to an end the day he is ordained? I have come across quite a few instances of parishes breaking the law regarding food hygiene, health and safety, disabled access, data protection, safeguarding and alcohol licensing and, for parish clubs, VAT and Corporation Tax. Our priests need a basic understanding of their legal responsibilities. Whatever a parish council wants, in the end the buck stops with the parish priest. Vatican 2 introduced changes. In the ensuing years each parish priest seemed to make his own decisions in some respects. One would overdo the ecumenism, another would opt out. St Joseph's would have female readers and EMHCs. St Mary's would carry on as before, with no lay involvement in the sanctuary, other than altar service. Are there refresher courses for parish priests? If so, how often are they, and are they compulsory? |
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| william of bow | Monday, 1. June 2009, 19:13 Post #26 |
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Quite right Rose.
Continuous Professional Development is an absolute requirement in nursing, doctoring, social work. No CPD, no registration. I think I am right in believing that the C of E requires some such from their Vicars. What about the Catholic Church? William |
William of Bow[G.K.Chesterton] Check my Blog: http://www.williamonthehill.typepad.co.uk | |
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| Deleted User | Monday, 1. June 2009, 19:55 Post #27 |
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Since the PP is the father of the parish, I suppose the next logical step will be CPD for parents,too? |
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| PJD | Monday, 1. June 2009, 20:40 Post #28 |
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William: I cannot really argue with the logic of what you said above; but much of it somehow leaves me uneasy. What would you point the finger at regards the existing failure of authority (not fit for purpose), cultural and ethical decline etc. I mean we don't want the class system back again if the new class is reflective of something even more hollow than the old. PJD |
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| william of bow | Monday, 1. June 2009, 21:13 Post #29 |
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KatyA:
As a parent I think I have learnt something nearly every day.
I don't think I understand your question, PJD. What failure? And what has class to do with it? William |
William of Bow[G.K.Chesterton] Check my Blog: http://www.williamonthehill.typepad.co.uk | |
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| Quicunque vult | Monday, 1. June 2009, 21:24 Post #30 |
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While these are not unimportant, there are some much more important things than these secular concerns. Do our priests have a proper understanding and love of Scripture and the sacred liturgy? Does their knowledge of theology enable them to correct error and to instruct the faithful correctly? How are they able to bring people into an understanding of the Lord and (more importantly) into relationship with him? We do have to be careful about accepting secular priorities too readily. Some of these - thinking especially of the "equality" agenda - conflict with teaching of the Church and will take us down the dark alleys of relativism if unchallenged. QV |
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9:18 AM Jul 11