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Silence in Church
Topic Started: Monday, 7. May 2007, 14:16 (577 Views)
Fortunatus

Vigil Mass last Saturday.
10 minutes before Mass starts I can't get into the building because one of our welcomers is deep in conversation and blocking the aisle. The hum of conversation is just about drowned out by the "mood music" from Father's ghetto blaster — some sort of meaningless piano vamping that sounds warm and comfy but has no connection to anything Catholic that I recognise. (You want 'mood', I have yards of 'mood'; it's called Gregorian Chant).
Three minutes to go. Father turns off his touchy-feely music, steps up to the microphone, asks that we prepare for Mass in silence.
Nice try, Padre! Reaction from the congregation - zilch.

Question. I may be a bit touchy on the subject but I still ask, where did we start going wrong on this?
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Rose of York
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Fortunatus
Monday, 18. August 2008, 23:53

Question. I may be a bit touchy on the subject but I still ask, where did we start going wrong on this?
Three possibilities:

The Sign of Peace has been misintepreted as a symbol of "all of us being friendly, less formal, at Mass".

People got "jobs", and took it that they had carte blanche to wander about, then to start discussing their "jobs" before and after Mass.

Nuns used to be sacristans. They prepared the church long before the parishioners turned up for Mass. There was no reason for parishioners to wander about, immediately before Mass. What needed to be done immediately before Mass, was done by the altar servers, who were not allowed to function until they had been properly trained. Now we have women walking around, being busy. That destroys the atmosphere of quietness before Mass commences.



Keep the Faith!

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Phil_sfo

I sometimes wish that I could be more tolerant in my thoughts on some of the good people who attend mass on weekdays. Quite apart from the business of which hymns will be sung and who will do the readings etc. all of which absolutely must be discussed before mass by some of the stalwarts, we now, in our parish, have an adult altar server who enjoys the recessional hymn so much that he continues to sing additional verses of it in the corridor to the vestry and while he is clearing the sacred vessels from the sanctuary.... not at all conducive to anyone making their thanksgiving.
As Rose said, the rot set in when people started wandering around looking for someone with whom they could shake hands.
..When the congregation started being seated, rather than kneeling, before communion - disregarding the fact that when the tabernacle is opened the congregation should be more reverent.
..when the removal of the altar rails left the sanctuary open to anyone with a mind to investigate something that caught their attention.
...when altar servers became less able, disrespectful and seemingly unaware of their responsibilities.
Grrrr....
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Rose of York
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Phil_sfo
Sunday, 24. August 2008, 17:55
.when the removal of the altar rails left the sanctuary open to anyone with a mind to investigate something that caught their attention.
In connection with an article I wished to take a photograph of our altar server.

Conversation, after Mass:

Father, please may I enter the sanctuary, to take a photograph of Sue holding a lavabo bowl - unless you would like to suggest something different?

Green Cardigan: Go on, just get up there and do it. There's no need to bother Father.

I am not allowed to enter the sanctuary without permission.

Priest: Thanks for that, Rose. You are correct. Thank you for asking me. Yes, you may.
Keep the Faith!

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Fortunatus

Phil_sfo
 
..When the congregation started being seated, rather than kneeling, before communion - disregarding the fact that when the tabernacle is opened the congregation should be more reverent.
I had a small revelation this morning; one I could have done without.
Three couples all with children in the pew in front of me went to Communion (taking their children "for a blessing" — Goodness knows where that idea came from!). They returned from Communion, sat down, and began talking to their children and to each other.
A small light comes on in my head (I who am trying to kneel down and say at least a short prayer) — do they, I ask, know what they have just done? I pose this question after Mass to a very good friend who just happened to be in the same pew and got the answer I expected. No!
If pressed they would probably (my guess, only) define Communion as a token commemoration of the Last Supper or part of the Eucharistic "meal". I certainly cannot see any way in which they deep down believed that they had just received the Body and Blood of their Saviour or even gave any thought to the rite or ritual they had just taken part in.
This might be marginally off topic (in which case no doubt it will surface somewhere else :D ) but it seemed relevant to this discussion because if you cannot see any reason not to be quiet after Communion or show reverence to the Blessed Sacrament before, during and after Communion then it seems to me in my small revelation that you have not really understand what Holy Communion, and by extension Holy Mass, is all about.
Where the blame lies for that I'm not sure but once again the phrase "bad catechesis" pops into my mind!
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Rose of York
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Fortunatus
Sunday, 24. August 2008, 18:38
This might be marginally off topic (in which case no doubt it will surface somewhere else :D ) but it seemed relevant to this discussion because if you cannot see any reason not to be quiet after Communion or show reverence to the Blessed Sacrament before, during and after Communion then it seems to me in my small revelation that you have not really understand what Holy Communion, and by extension Holy Mass, is all about.
I suspect some people think reception of Holy Communion is the "winding down period" following the "action" - readings, cantors, homily, collection, offertory procession, handshaking. You see, "nothing" is happening, it is "all over" so why not relax?

That is my suspicion anyway, and I don't think it is off topic, because the current conversation is about the causes and possible solutions of deprivation of

Silence in Church
Keep the Faith!

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Derekap
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I think choirs, traditional and contemporary, to some extent are guilty of encouraging noise in church. When the leader arrives he/she gives instructions to members already present and when later members arrive later they have to be given instructions, probably by previously arrived members. This leads to temptation for discussion.

*************************************

"(taking their children "for a blessing" — Goodness knows where that idea came from!).

What is wrong, Fortunatus, with children going up and receiving a Blessing. Before this custom they were ignored.[redit][/redit]
Edited by Derekap, Monday, 25. August 2008, 16:56.
Derekap
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Fortunatus

Quote:
 
What is wrong, Fortunatus, with children going up and receiving a Blessing. Before this custom they were ignored.
Oh dear, Derek. Not that old chestnut again. I don't know what miserable parish you were brought up in but children were not "ignored" in any parish I lived in. On the other hand approaching the altar to receive Communion was for the purpose of receiving Communion not for the purpose of receiving a blessing.
Has it never occurred to anyone here that all this Communion on demand stuff and mixing in Blessings for those who "for whatever reason cannot receive the Body of the Lord" actually has the effect of devaluing Holy Communion in some people's eyes, a point I thought I had made in my previous posting!
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Derekap
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Fortunatus wrote:

"Has it never occurred to anyone here that all this Communion on demand stuff and mixing in Blessings for those who "for whatever reason cannot receive the Body of the Lord" actually has the effect of devaluing Holy Communion in some people's eyes, a point I thought I had made in my previous posting!"

It has never occurred to me nor do I think it devalues Holy Communion in any way. I certainly think a Blessing is at least some form of acknwledgement to children prior to their being able to receive Holy Communion and likewise to adults who are preparing to enter the Church. As regards non-Catholics going up for a Blessing, well, it is possible some of them may be more worthy than some Catholics - sadly.

When I said "Children were ignored" I meant no notice was taken of them when they were taken to the Altar Rails by their parents, relatives or friends. In fact they were often left in the pews and perhaps infants in arms were given to another relative or friend.

So do you still think the "old habits" were better than the present custom?


Derekap
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CARLO
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Attending Sunday Mass last week in a small town Parish I was delighted to hear a newly ordained Priest ask the congregation to remain silent as they left the Church so that those who wished to remain in silent prayer and contemplation would be able to do undisturbed by chatterboxes!

"We have a big enough hall" he smiled - "You are all welcome there after Mass for a good chat!"

I would like to nominate him for some sort of award!

Any ideas?


Orate fratres
Let us pray brothers


CARLO[redit][/redit]
Edited by CARLO, Tuesday, 26. August 2008, 21:32.
Judica me Deus
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Fortunatus

Quote:
 
I would like to nominate him for some sort of award!

Any ideas?

With that sort of behaviour, Carlo, a posting to the ecclesisatical equivalent of Upper Hudson Bay looks on the cards!
:wacko:
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Rose of York
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CARLO
Tuesday, 26. August 2008, 21:31
I would like to nominate him for some sort of award!

Any ideas?



Papal Knight of the Order of Green Cardigan Un-ravellers.
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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In church the very important female who wears a green cardigan would walk up and down the aisle, observing all, ensuring that all was well for what she treats as a performance. It is a very small church, attended by a few dozen. When anybody arrived, this lady barge up to them, with any excuse to denote she was Officer in Charge. It might be "We have a pastoral letter from the bishop" or "The side door is open because of the hot weather". There was no peace for anyone who desired it. One day a man bear her to it. HE approached HER and said "two choc ices please". That happened in the entrance, not in the actual church.

For the next couple of weeks, attendees were free to enter, and pray, undisturbed.
Keep the Faith!

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Deleted User
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I just ignore such people in a Parish who act in such a fasion, or remind them they are in Church and should be quiet.

One time, a very loud lady who thinks she runs the place, was having a conversation, many of us could hear, she was being critical of certain people in the Parish. I got annoyed, went up to her, and reminded her she was in the House of God, and we could hear her, and she should take the conversation elsewhere.

A Priest I know stands at the entrance, and when people talk, he whispers, when they ask why are you whispering, he says, we are in Church, and people like quietness. That approach takes time, but can work, personally, I would just say at the end of Mass that people should be quiet before the start of Mass, and leave quietly as well.

:snapout:
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Rose of York
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Joseph Dylong
Saturday, 1. November 2008, 15:13
I would just say at the end of Mass that people should be quiet before the start of Mass, and leave quietly as well.

:snapout:
In some churches there is no land, and no hall. There is nowhere but the church, where they can meet. They need a time and place for communicating, after Mass, to get to know each other and their priest and if there are any, deacons and sisters. Leaving silently is not always an option, but conversation should be subdued, at the back of the church, and due consideration needs to be shown for people who remain behind to pray.
Keep the Faith!

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