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| Silence in Church | |
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| Topic Started: Monday, 7. May 2007, 14:16 (579 Views) | |
| PJD | Sunday, 15. July 2007, 21:06 Post #46 |
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A misunderstanding between us Rose. Language came from you.......on he thumped....... [not the language of humility - but then whose perfect] PJD |
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| Rose of York | Saturday, 27. October 2007, 15:54 Post #47 |
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I have been reduced to purchasing noise blocking ear plugs because the behaviour of parish Alpha female dashing up and down the aisle before Mass loudly giving instructions in case none of us know what is about to happen. Its not the words that bother me, its the decibels. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| MickCook | Saturday, 27. October 2007, 18:45 Post #48 |
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Reverence and respect at Mass? What is the Mass, if not the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. To think of that, the Son of God rejected by His own people, scourged by the Romans, led through the streets carrying his cross while week from the scourging and loss of blood. He is then nailed to the cross, hoisted aloft to suffer more insults while in agony. Then after such suffering he breathed his last... but not without forgiving them for not knowing what they were doing. The reason why: He loves each and every one of us. Reverence has a reason. |
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:) Mick The Cook Companies | |
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| Em. | Saturday, 27. October 2007, 18:54 Post #49 |
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Everyone says that Jesus was judged and punished by the Romans. Well, I do not go all the way with that thought. It was Jesus' own people that first condemned Him and the Roman representative under duress had to pass him on to His destiny. I do blames the Jews for Jesus' death which I like to call murder. |
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Divine Mercy | |
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| Gerard | Saturday, 27. October 2007, 19:15 Post #50 |
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This is a dangerous statement Em. Much safer to consider our own blame. He died to pay the price of our sins. We are each to blame. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| PJD | Sunday, 28. October 2007, 12:58 Post #51 |
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"loudly giving instructions" Don't think that would be permitted where I am Rose. PJD |
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| Em. | Sunday, 28. October 2007, 13:34 Post #52 |
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gerard, I was not even born them :o I was my hands, cannot be blamed. :rolleyes: |
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Divine Mercy | |
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| Rose of York | Sunday, 28. October 2007, 13:47 Post #53 |
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It should not be permitted, it is up to the man in charge to put a stop at it. Problem - one dominant personality, and one weak person who says "its a bit of a problem". |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| PJD | Sunday, 28. October 2007, 20:48 Post #54 |
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"one dominant personality, and one weak person" It's only a problem for these two - I mean apart from those who are disturbed by it. But as regards disturbance those affected could be better off spiritually - they suffer. No seriously one could approach either and point to it as a great imperfection - the first that they do it, the second presumably that they permit it. Then duck.... PJD |
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| Rose of York | Sunday, 28. October 2007, 20:56 Post #55 |
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PJD to put it bluntly, when a the dominant lay person dictates to weak person who happens to be a parish priest, and is aware of the problem, there is little any other person can do about it. Now you know why I bought the ear plugs. Some people who take too much on themselves think they are doing right, carrying out a service. The subtle game of the small minority who misinterpret lay participation as permissive lay domination is to advise those who wish to use the church as a house of prayer, that they are behind the times, and look at them as though they are "a bit cracked". One cannot force a very quiet nervous man to change his personality. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| PJD | Monday, 29. October 2007, 20:17 Post #56 |
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"One cannot force a very quiet nervous man to change his personality. " Quite right - difficult problem. Trying giving some spiritual direction to the lay person. Quietly but with force. Cheeky of me Rose really to suggest how you do things and avoid your ear plugs. Point is what that person is doing primarily is being disrespectful to Our Lord and only thereafter comes the lesser question of being rude to others. PJD |
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| Fortunatus | Friday, 22. February 2008, 13:17 Post #57 |
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Rose has made the point more than once about the need for some "space" for private prayer. At the end of Mass this morning (attended by about 15 people I would say) one lady remained in her place obviously engaged in private prayer. It became evident that she was upset since she was wiping her eyes and one of our parishioners who had been attending to some business of her own hastened to comfort her. Meanwhile the Prioress of the Green Cardigan was discussing some matter of great importance at the back of the church without any attempt to lower her voice while two Members of that Order were engaged in some, no doubt essential and equally loud, conversation immediately outside the door of the hall and less than three feet from where this woman was saying her prayers. I was reminded of a similar incident some years ago when one of the same Members, having spotted me sitting quietly at the back of the church saying Morning Prayer (with the book open, from which I was evidently reading) scurried across to ask me if I was coming into the hall for coffee. I seem to remember I managed to give her a civil answer. It is fairly obvious at least to me that the concept of private prayer has no place in the lives of the majority of those who regularly attend Mass (at least in my immediate experience) and that they can barely wait for the priest to get back into the sacristy before the hubbub starts. Our church is also locked during the day. For a while we had an arrangement where one of the keyholders would open it at lunchtime but that idea was abandoned fairly soon even though we have about 25 EMHCs who (you might think) could have arranged something between them, and several other people who hold keys and have reason to be about the place. I would add that I am one of the "other people" and have no problem with popping into church occasionaly at a set time for a quick word with the Almighty and for the convenience of others, but I am not about to do it every day. It seems that this particular 'ministry' (see my post on the "readers" thread) does not have quite the same attraction as reading, dishing out hymn books, being a sacristan, or distributing Holy Communion. I wonder why. |
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| Rose of York | Friday, 22. February 2008, 15:41 Post #58 |
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My attempts at private prayer on church premises were abandoned long ago. I made an exception a year ago, and attempted to quietly pray the Proper of the Mass for Those in Danger of Death, from my ancient battered Daily Missal. A person who is indeed in "good standing" in the parish approached me, clip board in hand. The following conversation took place: Rose will you be at Womens' World Day of Prayer? I am not sure yet. I would like you to be there, because I want you to do something for me. (Rose thought, for HER or for God?) Will you see me after Mass please? I need a few quiet minutes. After Mass: You wanted to speak to me? First I want you to make up your mind whether you will be there. I can't at this stage, I may have to travel a long way, for something important. Well I don't want you to do anything now. I found your manner abrupt. Sorry, but I was praying. How was I to know? During that Mass the priest had asked parishioners to pray for my brother who was intensive care. Life support had been switched off. Had that not registered with the lady? Does she not know why people sit in churches, reading from missals? Twelve hours later, my brother went to his just reward. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Rose of York | Friday, 22. February 2008, 15:53 Post #59 |
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Rose's prayer places: 1 This afternoon, got dog, got lead, got a plastic bag (responsible dog owner), set off down quiet country lane. Lovely! My thoughts ranged from one thing to another, and nobody, nobody at all, prevented me from communing with my maker and His Blessed Mother. A little request here, a thank you there, a few whispers in my ear (hope I took note), a bit of chatter and some formal prayers. 2 Behind a fence in the garden, out of sight of all but the people next door. That fence was erected as a privacy screen. My neighbours know I go there when I want to be quiet. They respect my wishes. 3 For "Special Times" (when I am either worried sick or bubbling over with thanks). A teeny little chapel in the nearby woods, erected hundreds of years ago, by a knight who wanted to give thanks for returning home safely. There is a teeny little window, a built in stone bench, small stone altar and a niche in the wall. Occasionally others pop in to pray, I have no experience of anybody disturbing others in there. Some of the hikers go in there, just look around, and quietly leave. Young mothers taking the children for a walk in the woods take a peek, and are sensitive enough to know I am in there to be quiet. The last time I tried to pray quietly after Mass someone nudged me and said "Are you all right?" She thought I might be ill because I was "slumped in a chair with my eyes shut." I have given up trying. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Fortunatus | Friday, 22. February 2008, 16:02 Post #60 |
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And yet in our younger days, Rose, our parish churches were places of prayer as well as places for Mass and the Sacraments. Are we better off now that those of us who believe in quiet contemplation must either take ourselves off to the woods or buy ear plugs? |
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9:16 AM Jul 11