Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We hope you enjoy your visit!
You're currently viewing Catholic CyberForum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our online cyberparish, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.
Join our community!
Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of abuse, personal attacks, blasphemy, racism, threats, harrassment, and crude or sexually-explicit language.
If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Locked Topic
Silence in Church
Topic Started: Monday, 7. May 2007, 14:16 (580 Views)
Timothy
Member Avatar

Quote:
 
I believe I'm may be correct in saying that if this is so they haven't been to Mass.


As a minimum I believe you have to be present from the time of the Creed to when the Priest has communion.
"An adult faith does not follow the waves of fashion and the latest novelty."
"Having a clear faith, according to the credo of the church, is often labelled as fundamentalism."
Pope Benedict XVI
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
pete

Quote:-
I believe I'm may be correct in saying that if this is so they haven't been to Mass.

It always was the Offertory, Consecration and the Priests Communion, miss any of these and youv'e missed Mass
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Quoted from another thread:

KatyA
Jun 11 2007, 08:35 PM
These prayers are not part of the liturgy so there is nothing preventing people from remaining after Mass to recite them privately.

Nothing to stop them? Last time I tried to remain in the nave while others had coffee in a room that has a good view of the nave, I was sitting, quietly, when someone shook me to ask if I all right! I replied that I was giving a family member the only birthday present I can give - prayers for the Repose of his soul - and the Mass had been offered for that intention. The lady thought I was ill, because I was still in a pew at "coffee time". Despite being told I felt fine, she sat with me for a "chat".
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
PJD

I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable with the idea that those having coffee were peering into the Nave. What kind of architecture is that I wonder?

It's like having a camera on you. Really, what next!

PJD
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Derekap
Member Avatar

PJD. Some churches, like the one I attend are small, there is no parish hall, therefore a quarter of the nave can be screened off for use as a meeting room or social occasion. The area is, however needed as an overflow for week-end Holy Masses and on special occasions. I have also heard of other churches which have the same facility. We have to realise that finance and/or space available can dictate the best use. Don't blame architects so readily!
Derekap
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
PJD the strange architecture is due to the church being a very small one, built about forty years to suit a tight budget. The building is rectangular, with no wings, extensions or alcoves. At the front there is, of course, the sanctuary. The remainder has (of course) the nave. At the rear of the nave there is an area about a quarter the size of the nave. Coming off that is a tiny sacristy, not much bigger than some bathrooms, and a toilet. That area is separated from the nave by sliding doors, so big and heavy nobody ever shuts them. Parish meals are occasionally held there and even then, that door is never closed. The most recent meal was a sit down buffet, to round off the Bishops visitation. I am quite physically strong, but 12 foot high doors that have not been moved for years might be a bit much for me. If I were capable of moving them I would do it, when we have meals. At Christmas, chairs are set out in the rear (coffee) area, so we can get all the worshippers in for Mass.

The building is well maintained, and parishioners take great pride in keeping it neat, tidy and spanking clean. I have yet to find out why there is no confessional facility, open or closed, on the premises.
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Derekap
Member Avatar

"I have yet to find out why there is no confessional facility, open or closed, on the premises."

Saint Rose. You must have a parish of saints who don't need Confession!
Derekap
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Derekap
Jun 16 2007, 10:15 PM
Saint Rose. You must have a parish of saints who don't need Confession!

During the two years I have attended Mass at that church I have seen just one person go to confession. It took place at the edge of the sanctuary, about six yards away from the rest of the people, who were drinking coffee and chatting in the area behind the nave. We are told confessions can be heard "by request". Many rural churches have no regular confession times. The only other means is to travel about twelve miles to town on a Saturday morning. Shopping list: Baked beans, 4; Heineken, 4; frozen peas, shoe polish, washing up liquid, then confession on the way home.

The modern trick is for bishops to say everything must be centralised at parish churches, to make communities stronger. Rural parishes are not even allowed occasional services of reconcilliation, "If the people value their faith, they will travel to town after doing a day's work, driving 20 miles home, putting baby to bed, and giving instructions to a baby sitter." So say some senior people at diocese level. Well so far as I am concerned, my personal sins are incapable of centralisation, they are nothing to do with parish communal life or Deanery Pastoral Reorganisation.
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
CARLO
Member Avatar

In my area Deanery and Pastoral Reorganisation together with reduction in the number of Masses has been exploded in the last 18 months by mass immigration of Polish Catholics.

Lost Masses have been restored and it is strongly rumoured that we are to have not one but two Polish Priests joining us soon!!!

Te Deum Laudamus
To God be praise


CARLO
Judica me Deus
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

I was going to post this in th "Loss of the Sacred" thread but it may be more appropriate here
Quote:
 
Fourteenth Sunday in Ordinary Time
07/08/07
Have we lost the art of expressing reverence and respect? In the modern world, there is no longer room for religion or church or fostering a healthy relationship with Almighty God. There is no longer room for the needs of others. The norm encouraged by society is to make self the center of all things. Others get in the way and stifle individuality and personal desire. The other represents competition in fulfilling individual wants and, therefore, has become the enemy! A selfish or self-centered person is unable to express reverence and respect. Totally oblivious to others, their concern is for themselves.

We cannot be fooled to think that reverence and respect are unimportant. These are very important. Love and concern for others, family –friends – spouse, which continually grows within us by the grace of Almighty God, seeks to find external expression. This external expression includes reverence and respect. And this is also true of our relationship with Almighty God. There is a natural desire within us to express our love for Him externally – concretely.

Fostering a sense of reverence and respect during the celebration of the Mass, although not the most important priority of the Faith or the highest expression of love of Almighty God, nevertheless, has its own merit. I don’t find any place in Sacred Scripture where our Lord chastises anyone for showing Him reverence and respect. To the contrary, He received the reverence and respect shown Him by others with affection. I know there are some who conclude that since reverence and respect at Mass are not the highest priority of the Faith, they are of NO concern. This could not be more wrong.

The appropriate manner in which we dress for Mass, our genuflections and folded hands, our attitude and behavior, our quiet before – during – and after Mass, ARE important. These substantially contribute to a sense of reverence and respect for the things of God, including the great gift of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass that is given to all of us. He receives these simple expressions of our love for Him with sincere affection.

I especially thank you for taking the time and effort to teach your children and grandchildren the importance of being reverent and respectful at Mass. Thank you for monitoring their behavior so that they don’t distract others. Thank you for dressing them appropriately for the celebration of the Mass. Thank you for helping them to focus on their prayers at Mass. Thank you for teaching them the importance of folding their hands and genuflecting. Thank you for making it a priority that they receive Communion properly.

At Mass we focus on Our Blessed Lord. We come to Mass for Him. Our attention and our thoughts are fixed on Him. I thank each of you for contributing to the reverence and respect of the celebration of the Mass at Sacred Heart Church. It is indeed a tribute to the love and devotion we have for HIM!

May the Lord bless and protect each of you in the week ahead.

From the bulletin of Sacred Heart Church Washington
http://www.sacredheartbowie.org/articles.php
Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
KatyA
Jul 14 2007, 12:53 PM

Quote:
 


The appropriate manner in which we dress for Mass, our genuflections and folded hands, our attitude and behavior, our quiet before – during – and after Mass, ARE important. These substantially contribute to a sense of reverence and respect for the things of God, including the great gift of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass that is given to all of us. He receives these simple expressions of our love for Him with sincere affection.

Respect begins before we are old enough to know what Church is about.

At home, our parents sat at each end of the table. There was an order to the procedure of a meal. Mother went to early Mass, then cooked Sunday dinner. Father went to the late Mass. Dinner never commenced until he returned - sometimes late, because he might be discussing with other men in Knights of St Columba, what to do for a family in need. We had to tidy ourselves and wash our hands before being seated. Father stood at the head of the table. We would then take our places behind our chairs. When he was seated we were allowed to sit. Mother would serve the meal. If any of us dared pick up a fork before Mother was seated, Father spoke. At the table we learnt that there is a time and a place for manners and smartness. We were just an ordinary family, no black ties for dinner - just expected to look tidy and be polite.

Does the modern procedure of eating meals whilst watching TV, or not using the table, lead to us forgetting respect? That attitude spills out to other areas of life.
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
PJD


1) Quote:

"If the people value their faith, they will travel to town after doing a day's work, driving 20 miles home, putting baby to bed, and giving instructions to a baby sitter.” [So say some senior people at diocese level. - Rose June 16th]

Re-phrased:

If the workers value their job, they will travel to town after a nights sleep, driving 20 miles home, and then find time to attend to their family. So say some senior people on the business programme.

2) Quote:

“There are two very different types of lay worker within the Church; those who play an executive role….and those who see their involvement in parish life as being concerned ’helpers’. [Tablet]

Re-phrased:

There are two very different types of employees within business; those of the executive class and those of the worker class.

Comment:

A secular-type of involvement will only succeed if it is underpinned by spiritual language. Therefore I cannot see that the “language” of 1) and 2) is appropriate. But if you wish to learn the hard way, then okay - start from there.

PJD
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
PJD
Jul 14 2007, 09:08 PM
1) Quote:

"If the people value their faith, they will travel to town after doing a day's work, driving 20 miles home, putting baby to bed, and giving instructions to a baby sitter.” [So say some senior people at diocese level. - Rose June 16th]

Re-phrased:

If the workers value their job, they will travel to town after a nights sleep, driving 20 miles home, and then find time to attend to their family. So say some senior people on the business programme.

2) Quote:

“There are two very different types of lay worker within the Church; those who play an executive role….and those who see their involvement in parish life as  being concerned ’helpers’. [Tablet]

Re-phrased:

There are two very different types of employees within business; those of the executive class and those of the worker class.

Comment:

A secular-type of involvement will only succeed if it is underpinned by spiritual language. Therefore I cannot see that the “language” of 1) and 2) is appropriate. But if you wish to learn the hard way, then okay - start from there.

PJD

Quotation 1 was said by a Vicar General who did not see why travelling long distances to Mass would prove difficult for anyone. The parish priest thumped the table and shouted "If the nearest Holy Mass was 50 miles away I would be there, I would be there". An old man said "Yes you would, Father. You're well young to travel fifty miles. I'm not."

I think we have lost a family from our parish. I heard the mother ask the parish priest when her child could be taught, prior to First Holy Communion. He told her, a programme takes place in the parish church. The family live nearly twenty miles from the parish church. Because it was a private conversation I moved away. The mother looked dejected. That was weeks ago. I have not seen the family since then.

Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
PJD


First lesson then Rose. The clergy (and/or more likely the paid or unpaid laity) are there to serve the parishioners first; only if it is quite impossible for them to do so as in the past do the parishioners start to take note of such things. But not in that language - well they wouldn't use it would they.

PJD
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
PJD
Jul 15 2007, 11:40 AM
But not in that language - well they wouldn't use it would they.

PJD

PJD what language?

I agree, it is currently impossible for clergy to serve us in the same manner as in the past. Two priests whom I know have the reputation of giving excellent pastoral care in some circumstances, on the phone. That is often the only way due to distance and workload. There are still some who think Father should visit every single person who is ill, even if it is a short illness not life threatening. He cannot.
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Archived Discussions · Next Topic »
Locked Topic