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Cohabitees receiving Communion
Topic Started: Friday, 2. January 2009, 13:47 (867 Views)
Mairtin
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What is the source of the actual sin in somebody receiving Holy Communion if they are not in a state of grace, be that because they are co-habiting, or guilty of some other grave sin? Jesus came to save sinners, is there not an argument that sinners are those most in need of Holy Communion to get help to abandon their sin?

What about non-Catholics receiving Holy Communion at say a wedding or a funeral? Where is the actual sin in that if it is done with proper respect and awareness of Catholic teaching? Could the act of receiving Holy Communion not perhaps make them think about becoming Catholic?

Just to avoid confusion, I'm not arguing that these things are okay or should be allowed, I'm simply looking for explanation. It's a long time since I was at school and was instructed in this sort of thing, am I right in thinking it's something along the lines of breaking Church Commandments as opposed to breaking God's Commandments?
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pete

The emphasis lies with the Communicant him/herself they should be aware of the state of their soul. At funerals and weddings the priest should mention that only those in union with Rome are permitted to receive the Blessed Sacrament, again it’s up to the Communicants whether they bring judgment upon themselves. That is Gods judgement not ours.
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JRJ

Mairtin
Thursday, 8. January 2009, 11:33
What is the source of the actual sin in somebody receiving Holy Communion if they are not in a state of grace, be that because they are co-habiting, or guilty of some other grave sin? Jesus came to save sinners, is there not an argument that sinners are those most in need of Holy Communion to get help to abandon their sin?

What about non-Catholics receiving Holy Communion at say a wedding or a funeral? Where is the actual sin in that if it is done with proper respect and awareness of Catholic teaching? Could the act of receiving Holy Communion not perhaps make them think about becoming Catholic?

Just to avoid confusion, I'm not arguing that these things are okay or should be allowed, I'm simply looking for explanation. It's a long time since I was at school and was instructed in this sort of thing, am I right in thinking it's something along the lines of breaking Church Commandments as opposed to breaking God's Commandments?
Holy Communion - think of the word, communion - is THE sign that we are in union with the Church. When the Priest says, "The Body of Christ," we do not receive until we respond, "Amen." That "Amen" is a solemn oath that we believe what the Church teaches and most especially that we believe we are receiving the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord.

The Catechism is helpful [emphases mine] (from http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/catechism/) [the link will redirect you after a couple of seconds]:

1385 To respond to this invitation we must prepare ourselves for so great and so holy a moment. St. Paul urges us to examine our conscience: "Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself." 218 Anyone conscious of a grave sin must receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before coming to communion.

1386 Before so great a sacrament, the faithful can only echo humbly and with ardent faith the words of the Centurion: "Domine, non sum dignus ut intres sub tectum meum, sed tantum dic verbo, et sanabitur anima mea" ("Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul will be healed."). 219 And in the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom the faithful pray in the same spirit:

O Son of God, bring me into communion today with your mystical supper. I shall not tell your enemies the secret, nor kiss you with Judas' kiss. But like the good thief I cry, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

1387 To prepare for worthy reception of this sacrament, the faithful should observe the fast required in their Church. 220 Bodily demeanor (gestures, clothing) ought to convey the respect, solemnity, and joy of this moment when Christ becomes our guest.

1388 It is in keeping with the very meaning of the Eucharist that the faithful, if they have the required dispositions, 221 receive communion when they participate in the Mass. 222 As the Second Vatican Council says: "That more perfect form of participation in the Mass whereby the faithful, after the priest's communion, receive the Lord's Body from the same sacrifice, is warmly recommended." 223
Jennifer
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Ned

Mairtin
Thursday, 8. January 2009, 11:23
Are you sure that you're not thinking about this story, Ned where two priests told unmarried parents that they were not welcome to receive Holy Communion along with their children at first Holy Communion; they did not bar the children which I think would be entirely wrong of them.

Would they even have the authority to do so?
That might well be so, Mairtin. Though I probably took in the Sunday World version.

Would the PP have the authority ? I'd say not - even for the cautious approach of those two PPs. The Bishop of Kerry must have given his okay.

I'm still uneasy about it. Christ is there for sinners and we are all sinners. Remember Christ's words to 'the chief priests and ancients of the people' - (matthew 21 v31 '... ... Jesus saith to them: Amen I say to you, that the publicans and the harlots shall go into the kingdom of God before you.'

What some parishes in England are doing is having children make their First Communion individually, one at a time, at morning Mass on weekdays. That makes a big thing of it for that individual child - and as it happens, and purely by chance of course - makes it difficult for the event to be made the occasion of a big drunken jamboree.

That wouldn't be popular in Kerry, but would be an important message for both the child and the family.

Regards

Ned



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Mairtin
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Ned
Thursday, 8. January 2009, 18:46
What some parishes in England are doing is having children make their First Communion individually, one at a time, at morning Mass on weekdays.


When my youngest child made her First Communion about 18 years ago, our priest was concerned about how the 'social side', for lack of a better description, was taking away from the spiritual side of First Communion; even then it was getting out of hand though not as bad as the total craziness we see now with fake tan, stretch limos, etc.

He made the suggestion that the children should actually make their First Communion privately along with their families; as it was coming near Easter, he suggested that could be a very appropriate time. Shortly after Easter, he would still have an official First Communion 'day' where they could all come together in their pretty dresses and suits.

As it so happened, I was scheduled for EMHC for the midnight Mass on Holy Saturday so she came out to that Mass with her mum and me and received her first Holy Communion from me.

I know that is not what being an EMHC is about but it was a very special moment for me.
Edited by Mairtin, Thursday, 8. January 2009, 19:08.
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
JRJ
Thursday, 8. January 2009, 17:42
Holy Communion - think of the word, communion - is THE sign that we are in union with the Church. When the Priest says, "The Body of Christ," we do not receive until we respond, "Amen." That "Amen" is a solemn oath that we believe what the Church teaches and most especially that we believe we are receiving the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord....
It was not ever thus. (I mean, not that people never used to believe, but that they never used to say "Amen" when receiving Holy Communion.)

But I've mentioned this on another thread, so best not derail this one again!
:tc:
S.A.G.

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Mairtin
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I understand all that, JRJ, but I'm still not clear to the nature of the sin actually committed.

There are certain sins such as murder, adultery, sin, etc. that are clearly identifiable as sin because they directly break the Ten Commandments.

Other sins such as not fulfilling your Sunday Mass obligation or yearly Confession requirement clearly break specific Church Commandments.

What is the sin I commit if I receive Holy Communion whilst not in a state of grace? Is it simply an infringement of Church Law which means that it could be delisted as a sin at some time in the future?
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OsullivanB

Sacrilege.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
What OsullivanB said.
S.A.G.

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Mairtin
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OsullivanB
Thursday, 8. January 2009, 20:02
Sacrilege.
The Catholic Encyclopedia does indeed define the reception of the Sacraments whilst in a state of Mortal Sin as Real Sacrilege but does not give any explanation why this is so.

Am I right in saying that the sin comes from breaking Church Law as opposed to the inherent nature of the action as in murder, adultery or stealing?

In other words, the Church can never declare murder, adultery or stealing not to be Mortal Sin but she could decide that a state of grace is not necessary for receiving the sacraments. (I agree that such a decision is unimaginable in practice, I'm just trying to tease this out a bit so that I understand it better.)
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Gerard

Mairtin

Does this help ?
It is from 1 Corinthians 11:

Quote:
 
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.


Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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OsullivanB

This may also help
Catechism of the Catholic Church
 
2118 God's first commandment condemns the main sins of irreligion: tempting God, in words or deeds, sacrilege, and simony

2120 Sacrilege consists in profaning or treating unworthily the sacraments and other liturgical actions, as well as persons, things, or places consecrated to God. Sacrilege is a grave sin especially when committed against the Eucharist, for in this sacrament the true Body of Christ is made substantially present for us
Edited by OsullivanB, Thursday, 8. January 2009, 21:24.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Mairtin
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Gerard and OsB

Those quotations are Saint Paul and the Church defining it as sin but not explaining why it's a sin.

I don't know whether I'm failing to get my point across or whether I'm just being obtuse on the matter but to me, sacrilege suggests a deliberate profanity of something sacred and the Catholic Encyclopedia definition more or less takes that line. I doubt that a person cohabiting, for example, or a non-Catholic receiving Holy Communion at a wedding or funeral is being deliberately profane, the very opposite is more likely to be the case.

:help:
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Gerard

Mairtin,

To some extent I agree with you but more along the lines of a mortal sin requiring full knowledge and full consent.

St Paul (i.e. the Bible, i.e. The Holy Spirit) is actually talking about the body of Christ i.e. the congregation. But the Church has undertood it in both senses i.e. transubstantiation and the congregation. Now, Paul uses the seriousness of the sin to shock people into improving their behaviour. I think the Church is doing the same when it uses the same words to say to people who are in mortal sin - you cant be in mortal sin and then try to join yourself to God through communion.

But there is the difficulty of (i) are they in mortal sin in the first place and (ii) are they actually committing mortal sin in the second place (if they go to communion).

Just one, of many, what ifs, - they may not feel totaly free at the wedding. They may feel some pressure to go to communion. In which case is there full consent?

I trust in Jesus, who is mercy.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Rose of York
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Four times, posts have been split from this topic and transferred to new or more appropriate topics. It's hard work.

The subject is Cohabitees receiving Communion, which naturally leads to why it is sacriligeous to receive Holy Communion when not in a state of grace,

:topicbaack: :pl:
Keep the Faith!

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