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Cohabitees receiving Communion
Topic Started: Friday, 2. January 2009, 13:47 (873 Views)
Emee
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Clare

I'm not sure how much of a burden it would be.

I once heard a Priest say he had been blessed with the good Grace to forget a person's Confession immediately afterwards. I wonder if God gives all Priests that special blessing? As you say, if not, the burden must be very heavy indeed...
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MickCook
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Emee
Friday, 2. January 2009, 23:43
Ah but Clare would he be knowingly committing murder if he didn't change the altar wine, thereby falling prey to a greater mortal sin? Sorry, just me going off on a tangent that's all...
Ah how easy it is to overlook the obvious! The penitant is suppose to make a reparation for sin: the priest can instruct him/her while still in the confessional to take the poisened bottle and pour it down the drain.

Sorry about the tangent! :fire:
:)
Mick
The Cook Companies
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Emee
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Mick

Problem solved!

Sorted. Well done!!
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Rose of York
Friday, 2. January 2009, 23:48
Clare
Friday, 2. January 2009, 23:42
But, as I asked before, am I to conclude that any cohabitee going to Communion is in such a situation? And what if the other party - the guilty one - also goes to Communion??
You should conclude nothing. Judgement of their sins is for God, and if they confess those sins, between themselves and their confessor.

A person related to me lived with his girl friend before marriage. He says they were celibate. I have no reason to doubt him.
I daresay most of us can't tell by looking at communicants we do not personally know whether they are living in sin or not. But this is about the public domain and what people do know. If a couple are openly living together and it is known to plenty within the parish that they are not simply living as brother and sister (and people do talk to each other, and tell people what they do sometimes! It need not be a case of gossip as the fact that the couple are quite open about it!) they should be denied Communion.

If I were in some situation where I had to live as brother/sister with someone, I would make sure that my friends knew it, and hopefully if a few newcomers wagged their tongues, they would be corrected.

The Church does take scandal seriously. And giving Communion to cohabitees causes scandal. You can't just dismiss it as gossip. It sets an example. It makes it look ok. And others will copy.
S.A.G.

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Clare
Friday, 2. January 2009, 23:59

The Church does take scandal seriously. And giving Communion to cohabitees causes scandal. You can't just dismiss it as gossip. It sets an example. It makes it look ok. And others will copy.
I was just about to post making that same point Clare.
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Clare
Friday, 2. January 2009, 23:35
Patrick
Friday, 2. January 2009, 14:59
Quote:
 
I imagine priests often have to give Communion to people they know not to be in a State of Grace, because if the sin is known only to the priest from the confessional, he would violate the seal if he refused to give Communion.


I'm not so sure. The seal of the confessional, as far as I know, is only broken if the priest divulges to another person what was confessed.
No, the priest is not permitted to act on any knowledge gleaned from confession outside of the confession. He would not even be allowed to change a bottle of altar wine if someone had confessed to putting poison in it. He should not even lock his door, if he doesn't usually, after a housekeeper confesses stealing from his room. And he can't refuse to give communion to a sinner whose sin is not in the public domain.
Here is an extract from my trusty Moral Theology, by Fr Heribert Jone:

Quote:
 
620. - Any use of knowledge derived from confession which is burdensome to the penitent, is considered by some moralists an indirect violation of the seal. Others deny this. All, however, are agreed that such an act is forbidden under grave sin.

Not even for the sake of averting the gravest harm from the common welfare, may knowledge be used in such a wise, (e.g., in elections, distributions of offices, ordinations, administration of Sacraments) even if noone, including the penitent himself, should discover the divulging of such knowledge. - The confessor may not refuse to hear anyone's confession if he knows only from confession that the person is very hard to dispose for absolution or that he may become troublesome in confession. - Still less may a priest dismiss an employee because of what he has learned about him in confession, or hide a key in order that the penitent who confessed a theft may not have access to a certain room, etc.

It is not forbidden, however, to use confessional knowledge in a manner which is not burdensome to the penitent. Thus, a priest may use knowledge thus obtained to be more friendly towards the penitent, to correct his own faults, to pray for the penitent, to consult books, to use the knowledge to his own spiritual advantage, etc.....


Mick's idea is good though! Get the penitent to sort it out!
S.A.G.

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Karin
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Karin
Oh my...do I see agreement here? I must concur. Get the person sorted out.
Karin

Hvaljen Isus i Marija. Kraljica Mira, moli za nas.
"Praised be Jesus and Mary. Queen of Peace, Pray for Us."

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It is time that the Church view on marriage was officially revised. Unofficially, it already has. Most couples now co-habit either as a prelude to marriage or as their permanent preferred choice. Everyone knows this, and at a parish level priests of all wings of the Church acknowledge it and adjust the rules accordingly. Otherwise we would have no Church left.

leave parish priests alone unless the crime is heinous--breaking purely Church laws never comes into that category.

John



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Rose of York
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John Sweeney
Saturday, 3. January 2009, 00:50
Unofficially, it already has. Most couples now co-habit either as a prelude to marriage or as their permanent preferred choice. Everyone knows this, and at a parish level priests of all wings of the Church acknowledge it and adjust the rules accordingly.


What is the point in being a priest of a Church that has strict rules, if one thinks the laity can change the rules to suit themselves?
Keep the Faith!

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Deleted User
Deleted User

It's not just the laity Rose. The hierarchy and parish priests know the reality and adjust their day to day response to these changes in society despite what central diktats say. In parishes up and down the land every day at Communion, Baptism, Matrimony , Funerals, priests and people are dealing with the real world in practical ways despite hopelessly outdated central rules. Or is there some parish somewhere where the rules are being scrupulously observed? Should be easy to spot from the rows of empty pews.

John
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CARLO
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John Sweeney
Saturday, 3. January 2009, 01:21
It's not just the laity Rose. The hierarchy and parish priests know the reality and adjust their day to day response to these changes in society despite what central diktats say. In parishes up and down the land every day at Communion, Baptism, Matrimony , Funerals, priests and people are dealing with the real world in practical ways despite hopelessly outdated central rules. Or is there some parish somewhere where the rules are being scrupulously observed? Should be easy to spot from the rows of empty pews.

John
John,

What you say has moved me.

A Catholic relative of mine is cohabiting and it is her earnest wish to be married as soon as circumstances permit. She has drifted away from the Church but (Thank God) there are signs of a drift back.

It would break my heart for her to be refused Communion on one of the rare but I hope increasing occasions she attends Mass.

Veritas
Truth


CARLO
Edited by CARLO, Saturday, 3. January 2009, 01:29.
Judica me Deus
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Carlo

We all face this in our families. I hope your relative comes back into full Communion with the Church if I am using the term correctly but I am certain she will not be refused Communion in the meantime nor should she, simply for co-habiting. We are not some fundamental sect and I applaud our priests for engaging with the modern world rather than taking the easy route of relying on out-of date dogma.

John
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Rose of York
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A man in my last parish was well known to be dishonest in business. He had cheated quite a few parishioners. Through preparing accounts for quite a few businesses he had defrauded, I was aware of the scale of his dishonesty. The parish priest must have been aware that this man was also a self confessed tax fraudster - in a big way. He used to boast about it. Should the priest have refused Communion to him, or is that only for sexual sins?

How about the Catholic licensee whose pub is well known for serving after time, or the known drink driver, and the parish gossip who damages characters?

No, its only sexual sin that gets peoples' backs up.
Keep the Faith!

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OsullivanB

You might like to redraft that last sentence?
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Rose of York
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OSullivanB I am very innocent, I do tend to put my foot in it. ;)
Keep the Faith!

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