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Cohabitees receiving Communion
Topic Started: Friday, 2. January 2009, 13:47 (863 Views)
SeanJ
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John Sweeney
Sunday, 10. May 2009, 22:43
I don't think you have answered the question Rose. What difference preciselydoes the marriage ceremony make if a strong commitment already exists?

I do believe many things that the Catholic church teaches and I am a bit disappointed that you should have to ask that. However, I have no time for slavish devotion that will not ask hard questions--what sort of Faith is that?

John
Question.

What does Jesus think of folks who think?

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Answer.

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OsullivanB

:rofl:
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Mrs.Pogle
from the woods
I cannot, and would not want to argue with this:

Quote:
 
1621 In the Latin Rite the celebration of marriage between two Catholic faithful normally takes place during Holy Mass, because of the connection of all the sacraments with the Paschal mystery of Christ.120 In the Eucharist the memorial of the New Covenant is realized, the New Covenant in which Christ has united himself for ever to the Church, his beloved bride for whom he gave himself up.121 It is therefore fitting that the spouses should seal their consent to give themselves to each other through the offering of their own lives by uniting it to the offering of Christ for his Church made present in the Eucharistic sacrifice, and by receiving the Eucharist so that, communicating in the same Body and the same Blood of Christ, they may form but "one body" in Christ.122


and:

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1638 "From a valid marriage arises a bond between the spouses which by its very nature is perpetual and exclusive; furthermore, in a Christian marriage the spouses are strengthened and, as it were, consecrated for the duties and the dignity of their state by a special sacrament."140

The marriage bond

1639 The consent by which the spouses mutually give and receive one another is sealed by God himself.141 From their covenant arises "an institution, confirmed by the divine law, . . . even in the eyes of society."142 The covenant between the spouses is integrated into God's covenant with man: "Authentic married love is caught up into divine love."143

1640 Thus the marriage bond has been established by God himself in such a way that a marriage concluded and consummated between baptized persons can never be dissolved. This bond, which results from the free human act of the spouses and their consummation of the marriage, is a reality, henceforth irrevocable, and gives rise to a covenant guaranteed by God's fidelity. The Church does not have the power to contravene this disposition of divine wisdom.144

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Mairtin
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SeanJ
Monday, 11. May 2009, 17:26
What does Jesus think of folks who think?
Sean

If you’ll forgive an awful pun, I’ve been thinking about that for a long time.

My paternal grandmother was cast out of the proverbial mould, she was an intensely religious woman. As the uneducated wife of an uneducated farm labourer, her Faith was as simple as it was intense – she had absorbed it at the knees of her own parents and like most Irish women of her generation, it was focused around Mass on Sundays and Holydays, monthly Confession and Holy Communion and things like the May and October Devotions, membership of a confraternity, attending a Parish Mission every few years and – most important of all – the nightly family rosary with all the add-ons for novenas, special intentions, etc.

I doubt that that the thought ever entered her head of disputing or challenging anything the Church said, particularly in the form of the Parish Priest whose word was generally considered equal to the Pope - if he asked my grandmother to jump in the air, her only question would have been How high, Father?

Two generations later, my own faith is very different – I question everything, I try to get beneath the surface and try to understand things for myself.

Some days, when I’m struggling with some issue or other, I envy my Grandmother the simplicity of her faith. Most days, to be honest and at the risk of sounding a bit arrogant, I don’t. Yes there are things in the Church that I outright disagree with and other things where I’m far from convinced but none of those things stop me from having an unflinching belief in Jesus Christ and that our Catholic Church is the one founded by Him and endowed with special gifts and understanding that no other church even comes near.

I suspect that when I finally stand before him for judgement, that I will get a right earful for some of the things I have disagreed over with the Church but I hope that those will be more than balanced by the fact that when I pray to God or go to Mass on Sunday, it is not through habit, or inherited parental influences or peer pressure – it is because I exercise the greatest gift He has given us, freewill, and I pray or go to Mass because that is exactly what I WANT to do at that time.

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Powerofone

"How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm, after they've seen Pariiiiiiiiiis".

There's nothing wrong with education. But once it's there, it would be sinful to attempt to uneducate yourself, even in matters of religion. You can't pretend the education has not happened. If this means that you're better equipped to spot abuses and errors, then so be it. It's probably part of the Great Eternal Plan.
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Mrs.Pogle
from the woods
We are asked by Jesus to become as little children. I don't think that means un-educating ourselves, or accepting all things in "blind" faith, for faith isn't blind. For me, it speaks of trust in our Heavenly Father, and in those He has commissioned to shepherd His flock. We may think after reasoning about these issues that we know better, but we do not have the wealth of experience, wisdom or the guiding of the Holy Spirit that is manifest in the teachings of the Catholic Church.

I personally struggled with certain "Catholic" issues when I converted, some of which I still don't fully understand, but I aim to have that child-like trust, believing that one day I will no longer be looking at these things "through a glass darkly". That doesn't mean I threw my brain away when I converted!
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Edited by Mrs.Pogle, Monday, 11. May 2009, 21:42.
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Rose of York
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The question is about Holy Communion for people known to be co-habiting, but there are others whose sin is well known. I have known of instances of people well known amongst the local business owners, to be persistent cheats, avoiding paying for goods and services received, and bragging about their tax frauds. One could call them public sinners. What is a priest to do when they present themselves for Communion? One could make the same argument about the person known to be persistently violent, or drunk, or a serious damager of characters.

Nobody knows whether a person has been to confession within the past few hours, so it is for us to concern ourselves with their sins? My own sins are my problem, I would not like to think parishioners are considering them while I make my way up the aisle.
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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John Sweeney
Sunday, 10. May 2009, 23:31
My point is that it is urely not enough to accept things without thinking about them. Why does the marriage ceremony make a difference to an existing long term relationship? The Church says it does but I think many catholics have their doubts.

John, if you have conducted a survey, and established that "many catholics have their doubts." do please give us a full breakdown, as detailed as possible (age ranges, education, geographical location).

If most Catholics have their doubts about the existence of God, he will still be around. Truth is not based on general opinion.
Keep the Faith!

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