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Inter-faith Dialogue; when does it go too far?
Topic Started: Saturday, 9. May 2009, 13:01 (437 Views)
Mrs.Pogle
from the woods
We'll have to agree to disagree then, Penfold! :wink:
...I'll go back to making my Dorset apple cake! :)
Edited by Mrs.Pogle, Saturday, 9. May 2009, 15:50.
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From the link given by Penfold, above
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In order not to misinterpret the meaning of what John Paul II wanted to achieve in 1986 and what, to use his own words, he habitually called the "spirit of Assisi", it is important not to forget the attention paid on that occasion to ensuring that the interreligious Prayer Meeting did not lend itself to syncretist interpretations founded on a relativistic concept.

For this very reason, John Paul II declared at the outset: "The fact that we have come here does not imply any intention of seeking a religious consensus among ourselves or of negotiating our faith convictions. Neither does it mean that religions can be reconciled at the level of a common commitment in an earthly project which would surpass them all. Nor is it a concession to relativism in religious beliefs" (ibid., n. 2).
For the 20th Anniversary: Interreligious Prayer Meeting for Peace, Assisi
Pope Benedict XVI
I looked up syncretist, just to be certain I understood the word correctly
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Reconciliation or fusion of differing systems of belief, as in philosophy or religion, especially when success is partial or the result is heterogeneous.

Surely there is grave danger of that in the courses offered by Turvey? Praying together or trying to understand different beliefs is good, but trying to find the lowest common denominator is not.
There is a notice on the website for my diocese about a vocations weekend coming up in July at Turvey Abbey. With only the Turvey website for reference, I would be most concerned that their promotion of the Enneagram, together with joint Christian/Eastern meditations might give an unhealthy impression of New Age spirituality.
KatyA
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PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR INTERRELIGIOUS DIALOGUE

MESSAGE FOR THE FEAST OF VEASKH, 2008

Christians and Buddhists:

Caring for Planet Earth

From Jean-Louis, Cardinal Tauran

President, PCID

VATICAN CITY, ROME

Dear Buddhist Friends

1. On the occasion of the feast of Vesakh, I am writing to you and your communities worldwide to convey my own warm greetings, as well as those of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue.

2. It gives me much joy to recall the positive relationships that Catholics and Buddhists have enjoyed for many years. I am confident that this foundation will serve to strengthen and deepen our understanding of each other as we continue to work together to build a better world not only for ourselves but for the entire human family. Experience teacher us that dialogue fosters the desire within the person and the community to share the goodwill and harmony which already exists, and indeed to reach out ever more courageously to others, ready to embrace the challenges and difficulties that may arise.

3. Pope Benedict XVI, in his 2008 Message for the World Day of Peace, observed: “for the human family, this home is the earth, the environment that God the Creator has given us to inhabit with creativity and responsibility. We need to care for the environment: it has been entrusted to men and women to be protected and cultivated with responsible freedom, with the good of all as a constant guiding criterion”. (No 7) The United Nations General Assembly has declared 2008 as The International Year of Planet Earth. As inhabitants of the earthy and believers, Christians and Buddhists respect the same creation and have a common concern to promote care for the environment which we all share.

4. Preservation of the environment, promotion of sustainable development and particular attention to climate change are matters of grave concern for everyone. Many governments, NGOs, multi-national companies, and research and tertiary institutes, in recognising the ethical implications present in all economic and social development, are investing financial resources as well as sharing expertise on biodiversity, climate change, environmental protection and conservation. Religious leaders, too, are contributing to the public debate. This contribution is of course not just a reaction to the more recent pressing threats associated with global warming. Christianity and Buddhism have always upheld a great respect for nature and taught that we should be grateful stewards of the earth. Indeed it is only through a profound reflection on the relationship between the divine Creator, creation and creatures that attempts to address environmental concerns will not be marred by individual greed or hampered by the interests of particular groups.

5 On a practical level, can we Christians and Buddhists not do ore to collaborate in projects which confirm the responsibility that falls to each and ever one of us? Recycling, energy conservation, the prevention of indiscriminate destruction of plant and animal life, and the protection of waterways all speak of careful stewardship and indeed foster goodwill and promote cordial relations among peoples. In this way Christians and Buddhists together can be harbingers of hope for a clean, safe and harmonious world.

6. Dear Friends, I trust that we can promote this message within our respective communities through public education and our good example in respecting nature and acting responsibly towards our one common planet Earth. Once again let me renew my heartfelt greetings and wish you a Happy Feast of Vesakh



Signed: Jean-Louis Cardinal Tauran, President PCID

Archbishop Pier Luigi Celaga, Secretary, PCID


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Monastic Interreligious Dialogue Commission

In Turvey Abbey we are members of the Monastic Interreligious Dialogue (MID) Commission of Britain & Ireland. This is part of the international DIM/MID Commission. Both communities have a contact member on the British/Irish Commission. Contact members attend meetings of the Commission twice yearly and contribute to the biennial newsletter of the Commission called Monastic Encounter Bulletin. One of the nuns edits this bulletin, which goes out all over the world as part of the International DIM/MID Bulletin.

Monastic Interreligious Dialogue Commission, Great Britain and Ireland: www.mid-gbi.org

International Monastic Interreligious Dialogue Commission, Europe: www.dimmid.org

Monastic Interreligious Dialogue, North America: www.monasticdialog.com



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Jean-Louis Pierre Cardinal Tauran
President of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue
Cardinal-Deacon of S. Apollinare alle Terme Neroniane-Alessandrine


I am not asking anyone to agree with me, I am just taking my lead from the man in charge of the project at Turvey.
and I try not to disagree with Presidents of Pontifical Councils.
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Penfold
Saturday, 9. May 2009, 16:30
Quote:
 
PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR INTERRELIGIOUS DIALOGUE

MESSAGE FOR THE FEAST OF VEASKH, 2008

Christians and Buddhists:

Caring for Planet Earth

Signed: Jean-Louis Cardinal Tauran, President PCID

Archbishop Pier Luigi Celaga, Secretary, PCID


Quote:
 
Monastic Interreligious Dialogue Commission

In Turvey Abbey we are members of the Monastic Interreligious Dialogue (MID) Commission of Britain & Ireland. This is part of the international DIM/MID Commission. Both communities have a contact member on the British/Irish Commission. Contact members attend meetings of the Commission twice yearly and contribute to the biennial newsletter of the Commission called Monastic Encounter Bulletin. One of the nuns edits this bulletin, which goes out all over the world as part of the International DIM/MID Bulletin.

, I am just taking my lead from the man in charge of the project at Turvey.
and I try not to disagree with Presidents of Pontifical Councils.
for which I am sure God will bless you Penfold.
I don't disagree with anything in those quotes, but I think Turvey have blurred the line between religious dialogue and embracing New Age practices and seek assurance that this is not so.

KatyA
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Joe Valente
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"The fact that we have come here does not imply any intention of seeking a religious consensus among ourselves or of negotiating our faith convictions. Neither does it mean that religions can be reconciled at the level of a common commitment in an earthly project which would surpass them all. Nor is it a concession to relativism in religious beliefs" (ibid., n. 2).
John Paul 11 at Assisi.

Begs the question : Why bother, why are we here ?

If we are not preaching our faith to them, if we are not trying to convert them, as we have no intention of joining them, what is the point in all of this. Why do we need to understand them, if we are secure in our own faith ?
It takes a long spoon to sup with the devil, personally I would be happy to give this "meal" a miss.
What doth it profit a man if he gains the whole world but suffers the loss of his soul
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KatyA
Saturday, 9. May 2009, 13:47
I share your unease. The Christian input seems to be entirely based on the works of Meister Johann Eckhart and, although he is certainly orthodox, I did read somewhere that his works are open to misunderstanding. I can't recall where I read that, but the entry in the Catholic Encyclopedia says as much.
Much has been said in the Centring Prayer thread that could easily be applied to the Turvey Abbey programme as presented on the website. I think I would want a little more information, and assurance that it was not simply an attempt to assimilate Buddhist, Hindu etc. spirituality which centres on self, not God.
KatyA
Other than that Turvey Abbey is operating a programme of outreach sanctioned by the Prefect of the PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR INTERRELIGIOUS DIALOGUE I am not sure what other reassurance you require.
Your premise that their Christian input seems to be entirely based upon the works of Meister Eckhart is false, they are a Benedictine community and have strong links with Douey Abbey. The Abbey is in good standing with the Roman Catholic Church and you have no cause to question the integrity of their mission.
Meister Johann Eckhart was a leading Dominican theologian who was already dead, thus unable to defend his work, when Pope John XXII challenged some of his conclusions but acknowledged that the errors had been retracted and that Meister Johann Eckhart had died in good faith with the church and that much of his writing was to form the basis of German and western Theological Thought for many centuries. His work is still to be found in seminaries today. All Theologians and Philosophers run the risk of censure and that is why the church requires that any book that wishes to be considered authentic teaching authorised by Rome must have an imperator. I doubt that I should have been required to study Meister Johann Eckhart.
You object to their use of the Enneagram and yet I first came across it when I was studying philosophy at seminary and it was widely used in many Catholic colleges in Ireland and England at the time but I leave you a reference to an article by Fr. Eddie Fitzgerald SDB
http://homepage.eircom.net/~sdbmedia/ennea/sdb_enn_art1.htm
You may also care to read
"Enneagram A Spirituality of Brokenness"
by Eddie Fitzgerald; Eilis Bergin
Fr Eddie died of cancer at the age of 60 on Christmas Eve 1999, a man who served the gospel faithfully all his life. He died a priest in good standing with the church. If the church has objections to the work being done with the eneagramme in Turvey it is has failed to voice its disapproval, although I accept it was not favoured by His Holiness John Paul II it was never banned or outlawed.
I am disappointed with your lack of trust in the Hierarchy of England and Wales to regulate the work done in Turvey Abbey, it may not be everyone’s cup of tea just as few people have the stomach for the Ignation 30 day retreat.
As I say I do not know what reassurance you nead other than the Authority of a Cardinal and the approval of the Hierarchy of England and Wales. I as a lowly chaplain can provide no more and you are free to go to Turvey or not, no one is compelling you. Mrs 'P' asked for opinion,
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Personally, I feel more than a little uncomfortable by such things, but what do you think?

Well I think there is no cause for concern.
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Many thanks Penfold for your thoughtful response. I will indeed read the article to which you link as I have very grave reservations about the use of the Enneagram, although I am aware that it is used in some Catholic institutions, including retreat houses and seminaries.
We have discussed the subject before in this thread
My apologies if I appeared to denigrate Meister Eckhart, (I meant to say only that some of his work was open to misunderstanding, not that it was faulty theologically) My impression that the courses were largely based on Eckhart is based on this from the Turvey Abbey website
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Interreligious Retreats and Courses at Turvey Abbey
The dimension of Interreligious Dialogue is reflected in the Weekend Events section of our yearly programme of Retreats & Courses. Each year we offer three Christian-Buddhist weekends, jointly led by a lay Buddhist or a Buddhist nun, and one of the Turvey nuns. We have a clear sense that Interreligious dialogue is not so much about discussion of the different teachings of our faiths, particularly where these separate us, as of growing to understand what we all believe, and how we live out the expression of our different faiths. It is not about proselytising or evangelising, but about each group witnessing to the way we live our faith. The Eckhart weekends have been extended by incorporating insights from a Muslim Interreligious scholar whose work on Meister Eckhart is becoming well known.
The weekends generally take the following pattern:
Inner Silence & Awakening 1: Meister Eckhart
Using texts from Meister Eckhart we aim to enter more deeply into our inner silence, and to open ourselves to a greater awareness of Life and (as we Christians would say) to God’s work in our daily lives. It is a contemplative weekend. It takes the process of Interreligious dialogue deeper than words, into a living silence.
Inner Silence & Awakening 2: Spirituality
Similar to the above, this draws on a wider spectrum of spiritual teachers of different faiths, (including Eckhart) and some of the discoveries of quantum science we try to enter into our own inner depths. It follows the same pattern as Part 1 weekend and is contemplative in its approach
Meditation and Mindfulness
This weekend is led jointly by a Theravada Buddhist nun and one of the Turvey nuns. It is an exploration of the teachings of Christianity and Buddhism on meditation and mindfulness (or as Christians would put it: contemplative prayer and the practice of the presence of God). It gives us an opportunity to learn from each other and practise together.

It all sounds a bit New Agey for me.
KatyA
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PJD

KatyA:

Perhaps you would like to read this:-

An adequate Christian discernment of New Age thought and practice cannot fail to recognize that, like second and third century gnosticism, it represents something of a compendium of positions that the Church has identified as heterodox. John Paul II warns with regard to the “return of ancient gnostic ideas under the guise of the so-called New Age: We cannot delude ourselves that this will lead toward a renewal of religion. It is only a new way of practising gnosticism – that attitude of the spirit that, in the name of a profound knowledge of God, results in distorting His Word and replacing it with purely human words. Gnosticism never completely abandoned the realm of Christianity. Instead, it has always existed side by side with Christianity, sometimes taking the shape of a philosophical movement, but more often assuming the characteristics of a religion or a para-religion in distinct, if not declared, conflict with all that is essentially Christian”.(6) An example of this can be seen in the enneagram, the nine-type tool for character analysis, which when used as a means of spiritual growth introduces an ambiguity in the doctrine and the life of the Christian faith.

{Source: Vatican VA – Pontifical Council for Culture & Interreligious Dialogue – entitled: A Christian reflection on the “New Age” Section 1:4 The New Age and Faith: 3rd para}

PJD
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http://www.thetablet.co.uk/article/5371

http://www.cosamara.com/view-page.php?ID=54

Booking Form: The Benedictine Way, 23-25 October 2009


:tc:
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Mrs.Pogle
from the woods
Aaaah, the Tablet, that explains it... :wh:

As to the other link, there's nowt wrong with icons! I'm not saying I would be wary about everything that goes on at Turvey, but when one has been invited by a friend to visit there, then it's wise to make sure that what you have been invited to is compatible with your understanding of faith, and some of the conferences etc. would def. not be for me :wink:
Edited by Mrs.Pogle, Sunday, 10. May 2009, 12:12.
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