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| Inter-faith Dialogue; when does it go too far? | |
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| Topic Started: Saturday, 9. May 2009, 13:01 (437 Views) | |
| Mrs.Pogle | Saturday, 9. May 2009, 15:49 Post #16 |
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from the woods
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We'll have to agree to disagree then, Penfold! ...I'll go back to making my Dorset apple cake! :) Edited by Mrs.Pogle, Saturday, 9. May 2009, 15:50.
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| Deleted User | Saturday, 9. May 2009, 16:12 Post #17 |
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From the link given by Penfold, aboveFor the 20th Anniversary: Interreligious Prayer Meeting for Peace, Assisi Pope Benedict XVI I looked up syncretist, just to be certain I understood the word correctly
Surely there is grave danger of that in the courses offered by Turvey? Praying together or trying to understand different beliefs is good, but trying to find the lowest common denominator is not. There is a notice on the website for my diocese about a vocations weekend coming up in July at Turvey Abbey. With only the Turvey website for reference, I would be most concerned that their promotion of the Enneagram, together with joint Christian/Eastern meditations might give an unhealthy impression of New Age spirituality. KatyA |
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| Deleted User | Saturday, 9. May 2009, 16:30 Post #18 |
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I am not asking anyone to agree with me, I am just taking my lead from the man in charge of the project at Turvey. and I try not to disagree with Presidents of Pontifical Councils. |
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| Deleted User | Saturday, 9. May 2009, 17:42 Post #19 |
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for which I am sure God will bless you Penfold. I don't disagree with anything in those quotes, but I think Turvey have blurred the line between religious dialogue and embracing New Age practices and seek assurance that this is not so. KatyA |
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| Joe Valente | Saturday, 9. May 2009, 18:16 Post #20 |
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"The fact that we have come here does not imply any intention of seeking a religious consensus among ourselves or of negotiating our faith convictions. Neither does it mean that religions can be reconciled at the level of a common commitment in an earthly project which would surpass them all. Nor is it a concession to relativism in religious beliefs" (ibid., n. 2). John Paul 11 at Assisi. Begs the question : Why bother, why are we here ? If we are not preaching our faith to them, if we are not trying to convert them, as we have no intention of joining them, what is the point in all of this. Why do we need to understand them, if we are secure in our own faith ? It takes a long spoon to sup with the devil, personally I would be happy to give this "meal" a miss. |
| What doth it profit a man if he gains the whole world but suffers the loss of his soul | |
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| Deleted User | Saturday, 9. May 2009, 19:39 Post #21 |
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Other than that Turvey Abbey is operating a programme of outreach sanctioned by the Prefect of the PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR INTERRELIGIOUS DIALOGUE I am not sure what other reassurance you require. Your premise that their Christian input seems to be entirely based upon the works of Meister Eckhart is false, they are a Benedictine community and have strong links with Douey Abbey. The Abbey is in good standing with the Roman Catholic Church and you have no cause to question the integrity of their mission. Meister Johann Eckhart was a leading Dominican theologian who was already dead, thus unable to defend his work, when Pope John XXII challenged some of his conclusions but acknowledged that the errors had been retracted and that Meister Johann Eckhart had died in good faith with the church and that much of his writing was to form the basis of German and western Theological Thought for many centuries. His work is still to be found in seminaries today. All Theologians and Philosophers run the risk of censure and that is why the church requires that any book that wishes to be considered authentic teaching authorised by Rome must have an imperator. I doubt that I should have been required to study Meister Johann Eckhart. You object to their use of the Enneagram and yet I first came across it when I was studying philosophy at seminary and it was widely used in many Catholic colleges in Ireland and England at the time but I leave you a reference to an article by Fr. Eddie Fitzgerald SDB http://homepage.eircom.net/~sdbmedia/ennea/sdb_enn_art1.htm You may also care to read "Enneagram A Spirituality of Brokenness" by Eddie Fitzgerald; Eilis Bergin Fr Eddie died of cancer at the age of 60 on Christmas Eve 1999, a man who served the gospel faithfully all his life. He died a priest in good standing with the church. If the church has objections to the work being done with the eneagramme in Turvey it is has failed to voice its disapproval, although I accept it was not favoured by His Holiness John Paul II it was never banned or outlawed. I am disappointed with your lack of trust in the Hierarchy of England and Wales to regulate the work done in Turvey Abbey, it may not be everyone’s cup of tea just as few people have the stomach for the Ignation 30 day retreat. As I say I do not know what reassurance you nead other than the Authority of a Cardinal and the approval of the Hierarchy of England and Wales. I as a lowly chaplain can provide no more and you are free to go to Turvey or not, no one is compelling you. Mrs 'P' asked for opinion,
Well I think there is no cause for concern. |
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| Deleted User | Saturday, 9. May 2009, 21:22 Post #22 |
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Many thanks Penfold for your thoughtful response. I will indeed read the article to which you link as I have very grave reservations about the use of the Enneagram, although I am aware that it is used in some Catholic institutions, including retreat houses and seminaries. We have discussed the subject before in this thread My apologies if I appeared to denigrate Meister Eckhart, (I meant to say only that some of his work was open to misunderstanding, not that it was faulty theologically) My impression that the courses were largely based on Eckhart is based on this from the Turvey Abbey website
It all sounds a bit New Agey for me. KatyA |
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| PJD | Saturday, 9. May 2009, 22:32 Post #23 |
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KatyA: Perhaps you would like to read this:- An adequate Christian discernment of New Age thought and practice cannot fail to recognize that, like second and third century gnosticism, it represents something of a compendium of positions that the Church has identified as heterodox. John Paul II warns with regard to the “return of ancient gnostic ideas under the guise of the so-called New Age: We cannot delude ourselves that this will lead toward a renewal of religion. It is only a new way of practising gnosticism – that attitude of the spirit that, in the name of a profound knowledge of God, results in distorting His Word and replacing it with purely human words. Gnosticism never completely abandoned the realm of Christianity. Instead, it has always existed side by side with Christianity, sometimes taking the shape of a philosophical movement, but more often assuming the characteristics of a religion or a para-religion in distinct, if not declared, conflict with all that is essentially Christian”.(6) An example of this can be seen in the enneagram, the nine-type tool for character analysis, which when used as a means of spiritual growth introduces an ambiguity in the doctrine and the life of the Christian faith. {Source: Vatican VA – Pontifical Council for Culture & Interreligious Dialogue – entitled: A Christian reflection on the “New Age” Section 1:4 The New Age and Faith: 3rd para} PJD |
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| Deleted User | Sunday, 10. May 2009, 03:17 Post #24 |
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http://www.thetablet.co.uk/article/5371 http://www.cosamara.com/view-page.php?ID=54 Booking Form: The Benedictine Way, 23-25 October 2009
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| Mrs.Pogle | Sunday, 10. May 2009, 12:02 Post #25 |
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from the woods
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Aaaah, the Tablet, that explains it... As to the other link, there's nowt wrong with icons! I'm not saying I would be wary about everything that goes on at Turvey, but when one has been invited by a friend to visit there, then it's wise to make sure that what you have been invited to is compatible with your understanding of faith, and some of the conferences etc. would def. not be for me
Edited by Mrs.Pogle, Sunday, 10. May 2009, 12:12.
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9:19 AM Jul 11