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Totalitarian Britain?
Topic Started: Friday, 8. May 2009, 19:50 (582 Views)
OsullivanB

John is absolutely right. To call this country anything remotely like a totalitarian state is to demean the experiences of those who really did and live and do live in such states, whether in the middle east, eastern europe, the far east or south america. I feel grateful rather than grudging for the fact that I live in England.
Edited by OsullivanB, Sunday, 10. May 2009, 22:35.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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CARLO
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I also agree with John who states the position very well.

I sometimes get the feeling that many of those who predict totalitarianism in the UK or the USA actually secretly yearn for it or would have no objection provided the totalitarians enforced their own particular set of crackpot values and rules!

:pl:

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CARLO
Judica me Deus
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Rose of York
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OsullivanB
Sunday, 10. May 2009, 22:24
John is absolutely right. To call this country anything remotely like a totalitarian state is to demean the experiences of those who really did and live and do live in such states, whether in the middle east, eastern europe, the far east or south america. I feel grateful rather than grudging for the fact that I live in England.
We are on the route to totalitarianism.

I for one do not demean the experiences of those who really did and live and do live in such states. We are not in a situation as serious as theirs. There are people who say to the sick man "there are plenty of people worse off than you are". Even when that is true, knowing others are worse off does not make the sick man healthy.

We know what has happened, and still happens elsewhere, there is nothing wrong with being vigilant, in case totalianarianism creeps in here.
Keep the Faith!

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OsullivanB

Let me try another way of finding a perspective on this. Which country would be an exemplar of the direction in which we should instead be moving?
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Rose of York
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OsullivanB
Sunday, 10. May 2009, 23:10
Which country would be an exemplar of the direction in which we should instead be moving?
That is a tough one. I doubt whether there is any place, other than the Kingdom of God, where everything is hunky dory.

One could say "We are not as bad as the others". That has no bearings upon whether our society is right or wrong.
Keep the Faith!

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OsullivanB

We weren't discussing whether our country was right or wrong. We were discussing whether it was moving towards or perhaps on the brink of totalitarianism - a word usually associated with regimes of the kind headed by Pol Pot, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin or Mao Ze Dong. I therefore asked not for an exemplar of rectitude but an indication of who is doing things better to avoid such a fate than we are. Answer has come there none so far. I boldly reassert that we are not going the way of Year Zero Cambodia, Third Reich Germany, Soviet Russia or The People's Republic of China. I go further. I categorise such scaremongering as arrant nonsense.
Edited by OsullivanB, Sunday, 10. May 2009, 23:44.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Bob Crowley

Totalitarian states usually arise when circumstances are dire. Germany had years of Zimbabwean inflation before Hitler took over. with a world wide depression to boot. Soviet Russia had an enormous gap between rich and peasant before the communists took over, and had lost millions of men in World War I. Cambodia had been bombed mercilessly during the Vietnam War next door, and it was destabilised. The current Fijian dictatorship is the result of racial strife between native born Fijians and imported Indian workers (by the British) who now are as numerous as the natives.

There is always a reason. However a modern Western totalitarian dictatorship has such overwhelming technology at its fingertips, it would be almost impossible to displace. But what sort of emergency would give the power hungry the excuse to take it on.

I personally believe Pakistan is going to be the lynch pin. If there is a nuclear war as a result between India and Pakistan for example, there would be an immediate effect on nearby China, the current world powerhouse. The Middle East, which is Moslem and contains most of the world's oil, would then become a tinderbox (ever wondered why God has allowed the Moslems a near monopoly on oil at this time in history?).

I'm pretty sure an oil embargo would not be far behind. Western nations would go broke in a week, with our dependency on oil and our enormous debt. It would be impossible to predict what would happen in any detail, but I suspect there'd be an enormous proclivity towards what is euphemistically called "strong government".

As I said, I think we live in a dangerous age. Time and again Mary has been warning us that God is running out of patience - at Lourdes, at Fatima and very, very strongly at Akita.

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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
OsullivanB
Sunday, 10. May 2009, 22:24
John is absolutely right. To call this country anything remotely like a totalitarian state is to demean the experiences of those who really did and live and do live in such states, ....
On the contrary.

If I were living in an already obviously totalitarian state, I would not begrudge people in potentially totalitarian states wanting to avoid things getting worse.

It's like saying it's insulting to someone who is seriously ill, for someone who is well to want to take steps not to be ill!
S.A.G.

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OsullivanB

But to call someone who is well diseased is offensive and that is what I object to. We must always be vigilant for our liberties. That is not the same as saying that we are in imminent danger of losing them.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
OsullivanB
Monday, 11. May 2009, 15:29
But to call someone who is well diseased is offensive and that is what I object to.
And what I oblect to is calling something which is diseased, well.
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OsullivanB

When did this happen?
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Joe Valente
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In a totalitarian state or in a state which was on the verge of becoming one would the citizens ,periodically, be given the chance to oust the government and vote in an alternative government by means of an open and honest election ?
What doth it profit a man if he gains the whole world but suffers the loss of his soul
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Deleted User
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I think the biggest danger is apathy and a sence that at the moment the majority of people in the UK do not bother to Vote at elections.
This enables some of the extreme parties such as the BNP to secure elections with very little effort because they excite people into voting for them by making very plausable claims and hiding their less savoury intentions.
Fair elections and a free vote is a great freedom and it is sad so few use their freedom wisely and cast a vote, any vote.
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Joe Valente
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it is sad so few use their freedom wisely and cast a vote, any vote.

In wee Northern Ireland we are not like that, over here even the dead vote :fire:
What doth it profit a man if he gains the whole world but suffers the loss of his soul
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OsullivanB

at least once.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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