Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We hope you enjoy your visit!
You're currently viewing Catholic CyberForum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our online cyberparish, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.
Join our community!
Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of abuse, personal attacks, blasphemy, racism, threats, harrassment, and crude or sexually-explicit language.
If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Locked Topic
When Is A Protestant Not A Protestant?
Topic Started: Friday, 7. September 2007, 16:44 (765 Views)
Angus Toanimo
Member Avatar
Administrator
Colin2000
Sep 8 2007, 01:17 AM
Bits and pieces,

Yes with the CofE. Divorce will mean that a couple can not marry again in the Church of England's Church if a partner is divorced!


[/QUOTE]
Why not Colin? Your religions founder didn't seem to have a problem with such "trivial" matters!

Quote:
 
Problems in the Priesthood also.  But I would have to confirm what their present position is.  Normally they were out of the priesthood with the divorce but the ground could be shifting!


Priesthood? The CofE doesn't have one. It has men, and women, who are no more validly ordained than you or I. This is funny - the CofE, officially, scourns divorce and remarriage, yet allows hom osex ual "clergy"?

Quote:
 
Anglo-catholics have the seven sacraments smells and bells Church dressed up with paintings on the walls stars on the ceiling and Crucifix on an Altar with six candles,  Hang on while I cross myself, as per here in the Roman Church.


Now, I have a great respect for the TAC. And, as is documented here on this forum, it upsets me that they "cannot" swim the Tiber. I have been inside Traditional Anglo Catholic Churches and they would put most of our Catholic parishes to shame. Really. One could be forgiven for walking into one and recognising it as Catholic. Just the same as one could be forgiven for walking into a Catholic parish church and thinking it was protestant.

Quote:
 
Anglicans have two sacraments Baptism and Communion.  Of course we need confirmation to confirm that the baptized are believers and a bishop to confirm their baptism.  But The confirmation is not a sacrament it is a confirmation of faith and they have been dunked as a baby!


Yes. The two Sacraments. Confirmation by an Anglican "bishop" is invalid as the bishop is not licitly or validly consecrated - without a mandate from Rome and without the "grave necessity" clause that Canon Law provides.

Quote:
 
A number of new believers are now been baptised if they were not done as a baby/child.  and confirmed by the Bishop.  In extreme cases they are baptised by total immersion and confirmed which really is redundant in these circumstances.


Every person, no matter what "denomination" is baptised a Catholic, IF the Trinitarian formula is used and the water is poured. If the Trinitarian formula is not used, the baptism is null and void.

Quote:
 
Also we have a slight problem with Protestants!  We can not really protest against the True and Established Catholic Church in England because we are the True and  Established Catholic Church in England.  The English Law.  The Queen.  And Parliament says we are!


English Law, Canon Law and God's Law are separate things. English Law is that passed by a temporal monarch and is below God's Law. Since Canon Law was devised by the One True, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church (which was true of every Christian before the Reformation [which is why "catholic" means "universal"]), it, as far as Catholics are concerned, is above English Law, except where in cases the jurisdicion falls to the law of the land.

Quote:
 
Oh and Anglo-catholics also hold confessional on Saturday nights in some of their churches.  In the main Anglican Churches Confession and Absolution happens in General confession during the Service of Communion or Morning or Evening Prayer!


And I bet you don't have to phone the "priest" and make an appointment for it? Great, isn't it? RC have valid confessions, the TAC/ACProds don't, yet WE have to phone up for ours! Shambles!

Quote:
 
So we have two sacraments. Baptism, Communion,  Five other ceremonies of various status.  Marriage, Confession, confirmation, (Hang about I have Lost two?).  Penance, not fashionable,  Holy Orders.  At present Deacon, Priest,  Bishops are ordained/consecrated priest I suppose in case they might have gone off!


Er, "Holy Communion" as a "sacrament" in the CofE is invalid. The majority believe in "Consubstantiation", which denies the "Real Presence" or "Transubstantiation".

Those in the TAC that may well believe in the "Real Presence" are deluding themselves - no miracle takes place on their "altars" because there is no validly ordained Priest to facilitate the miracle or to confect the sacrament.

May sound harsh, but it's like that, and that's the way it is. I love the TAC Colin, I am upset that they are literally in Limbo - I would love nothing more than to see their "priests" come home to Rome - they could teach our lot a thing or two about how Mass should be celebrated! Seriously!
Posted Image
Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Patrick
Sep 12 2007, 12:42 AM
Colin2000,Sep 8 2007
01:17 AM
Bits and pieces,

Yes with the CofE. Divorce will mean that a couple can not marry again in the Church of England's Church if a partner is divorced!



Why not Colin? Your religions founder didn't seem to have a problem with such "trivial" matters! [/QUOTE]
Who founded the Church of England, Henry VIII or Elizabeth I?
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Angus Toanimo
Member Avatar
Administrator
Rose of York
Sep 12 2007, 12:53 AM
Patrick,Sep 12 2007
12:42 AM
Colin2000,Sep 8 2007
01:17 AM
Bits and pieces,

Yes with the CofE. Divorce will mean that a couple can not marry again in the Church of England's Church if a partner is divorced!



Why not Colin? Your religions founder didn't seem to have a problem with such "trivial" matters!

Who founded the Church of England, Henry VIII or Elizabeth I? [/QUOTE]
Henry VIII, in 1534!
Posted Image
Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Colin2000

Patrick
Sep 12 2007, 12:04 AM
Rose of York,Sep 12 2007
12:53 AM
Patrick,Sep 12 2007
12:42 AM
Colin2000,Sep 8 2007
01:17 AM
Bits and pieces,

Yes with the CofE. Divorce will mean that a couple can not marry again in the Church of England's Church if a partner is divorced!



Why not Colin? Your religions founder didn't seem to have a problem with such "trivial" matters!

Who founded the Church of England, Henry VIII or Elizabeth I?

Henry VIII, in 1534! [/QUOTE]
But not to worry all,

I am sure St. Peter sorted Henry out at the Golden Gates.

Henry was a right one of them wasn't he!

But again not to worry folks because there is only One High Priest and He lives in Heaven with His Father. Apart from the odd stroll down memory lane as the HolyGhost from time to time!

Question to exercise the mind, "How can Jesus be in the Bread and the Wine if He is already in the Temple, me and you?"

Yours in His Name,

Colin.
JESUS IS LORD


Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Patrick
Sep 12 2007, 01:04 AM

Who founded the Church of England, Henry VIII or Elizabeth I?

Henry VIII, in 1534! [/QUOTE]
Henry did not found the Church of England. He declared himself to be head of The Church in England. The Church of England dates from 29th April 1559, with the passage of the Act of Supremacy and the Act of Uniformity. Elizabeth set about founding a new religion. That new religion was the Church of England.

Henry, though disobedient to The Pope, never declared himself to have left The Catholic Church, so he died a Catholic.
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Angus Toanimo
Member Avatar
Administrator
Rose of York,Sep 12 2007
01:49 AM
Patrick,Sep 12 2007
01:04 AM

Who founded the Church of England, Henry VIII or Elizabeth I?

Henry VIII, in 1534!

Henry did not found the Church of England. He declared himself to be head of The Church in England. The Church of England dates from 29th April 1559, with the passage of the Act of Supremacy and the Act of Uniformity. Elizabeth set about founding a new religion. That new religion was the Church of England.

Henry, though disobedient to The Pope, never declared himself to have left The Catholic Church, so he died a Catholic. [/QUOTE]
Head of the Church In England? The Church IN England, up until that point, was the Catholic Church. To refuse the supremacy of the Pope and to go against the Supreme Authority of the Pope constituted a schismatic act. From the time Henery was declared excommunicated, Henry was the Head of a different religion, regardless of what the history books say.

Henry founded the Church of England, he alone created the Church OF England. All Lizzie the First did was to perpepuate the schism.

IF Henry considered himself to be Catholic - and indeed a member of the Catholic Church, why on Earth did he set about the dissolution of the monasteries? Why did Catholic priests get tortured and martyred during his reign? Yes, he considered himself to be the Head of the Church in England, but what he was Head of was never Catholic. English history will tell us that Great King Harry was Catholic and Head of the Catholic Church in England, but he was anything but. He was the head of the Church of England.

He passed the Act of Supremacy IN 1534 that was subsequently repealed by Mary Tudor, only to be restored again by Elizabeth I.

The Act of Supremacy bestowes upon the monarch the title of "The Supreme Governor of the Church of England", of which King Harry was the first. His bovine daughter was the third.

If you are willing to believe that Henry died a Catholic because he merely disobeyed the Pope - then you should know that mere "disobedience" is a disciplinary matter and not a direct cause for excommunication. However, breaking from Rome, divorcing your wife and giving your bishops jurisidiction where it is not supplied nor granted, is an excommunicable offence. Henry, despite what English history says, created a new Church, gave his bishops jurisidiction where it had been withdrawn - thereby creating a new Church, thus incurring excommunication.

Of course, these days, because of the passage of 500 years or so, the crimes of Henry are either forgotten or played down.

One thing. The passage of time does not lessen the crime. That King should have hung on the gallows tree for what he did to our Faith and our priests and ancestors, not to mention the poor unfortunate women he shacked up with.

English history books will tell you that Henry died a Catholic, the Head of the Catholic Church in England, because it lends a certain credibility and validity to that shambles of a "Communion" that is still inflicted upon us today.

English history books are not worth the paper they are written on. Especially the ones written throughout the "Great British Empire".

As for the Act of Uniformity 1549, that was where the Book of Common Prayer was declared to be the only legal form of worship. The use of the Latin Catholic missal was made illegal. That was the first Act of Uniformity and had nothing to do with Lizzie, but Edward VI. If you read the Act, you will probably see that it uses the term "Church OF England" as opposed to the "Church IN England".

And, in the aforementioned Act...

"Provided always, and be it ordained and enacted by the authority aforesaid, that all and singular archbishops and bishops, and every of their chancellors, commissaries, archdeacons, and other ordinaries, having any peculiar ecclesiastical jurisdiction, shall have full power and authority by virtue of the Act, as well to inquire in their visitations, synods, and elsewhere within their jurisdiction, [or] at any other time or place, to take accusations and informations of all and every the things above mentioned, done, committed, or perpetrated, within the limits of their jurisdiction and authority, and to punish the same by admonition, excommunication, sequestration, or deprivation, and other censures and process, in like form as heretofore has been used in like cases by the king's ecclesiastical laws."

Bang. New religion - and before Elizabeth I.
Posted Image
Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Gerard

Patrick,

I think Bloody Mary tried some of that but it didnt work.


Colin,

Quote:
 
Question to exercise the mind, "How can Jesus be in the Bread and the Wine if He is already in the Temple, me and you?"


No problem for you, your God can do anything even fit in a thimble :clap: .
No problem for me either. Jesus said it and I believe it.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Clare
Member Avatar
Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Gerard
Sep 12 2007, 09:22 AM
Patrick,

I think Bloody Mary tried some of that but it didnt work.

Spoken like a Protestant, Gerard.

:angry:

Protestants call her Bloody Mary.

S.A.G.

Motes 'n' Beams blog

Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz!
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Gerard

Clare,

I refuse to join a tribe. I saw what that produces when I lived in Glasgow.
I am a catholic and I call her Bloody Mary because thats what she was and to show my disaproval for that approach. It is not the way Jesus showed us.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Clare
Member Avatar
Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
If you believe all the Protestant propaganda, Gerard.

How about reading that book about the "Reformation" by a fair-minded Protestant, William Cobbett? He might dispel a few myths.

Clare.
S.A.G.

Motes 'n' Beams blog

Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz!
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Gerard

Clare,

At a conservative estimate how many protestants did Mary have murdered ?

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Clare
Member Avatar
Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Gerard
Sep 12 2007, 10:22 AM
At a conservative estimate how many protestants did Mary have murdered ?

When did you stop beating your wife?

:rolleyes:
S.A.G.

Motes 'n' Beams blog

Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz!
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Gerard

Clare,

Oh dear ! was the word "murder" a bit insensitive should I have said "killed"? or is "burt at the stake" more appropriate ?

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Clare
Member Avatar
Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Gerard,

"Execute" would be a better word. The state has the right to execute criminals. Promoting heresy is a crime.

(Don't get excited, the Jamies. I didn't say heretics "should" be burned!)

Anyhow, Gerard, how about you stop believing the Protestant lies you've been fed, and take a look here.

Clare.
S.A.G.

Motes 'n' Beams blog

Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz!
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Clare
Member Avatar
Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Here's a reminder of what Fr Faber wrote about heresy:

Quote:
 
If we hated sin as we ought to hate it, purely, keenly, manfully, we should do more penance, we should inflict more self-punishment, we should sorrow for our sins more abidingly. Then, again, the crowning disloyalty to God is heresy. It is the sin of sins, the very loathsomest of things which God looks down upon in this malignant world. Yet how little do we understand of its excessive hatefulness! It is the polluting of God’s truth, which is the worst of all impurities.
...


Heresy isn't an unimportant matter.
S.A.G.

Motes 'n' Beams blog

Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz!
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Archived Discussions · Next Topic »
Locked Topic