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| When Is A Protestant Not A Protestant? | |
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| Topic Started: Friday, 7. September 2007, 16:44 (757 Views) | |
| Deleted User | Monday, 4. May 2009, 22:47 Post #151 |
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| OsullivanB | Tuesday, 5. May 2009, 21:11 Post #152 |
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I have now read the book recommended by Bob. It is interesting and informative. I did not find it persuasive on the central point indicated by the title: "Martin Luther - Hitler's Spiritual Ancestor" . This is unsurprising as the writer, who disclaims academic qualifications for writing it, says of it: "...I am not attempting to provide a fool-proof thesis; I am merely trying to suggest a possibility, a line of thought which hitherto has been ignored." Worth a glance through. Thanks Bob.
Edited by OsullivanB, Tuesday, 5. May 2009, 21:15.
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| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| Bob Crowley | Wednesday, 6. May 2009, 22:57 Post #153 |
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The reason I came across the book in the first place was in my early days of Catholicism, and I was trying to find out a bit more about Luther's dark side, so to speak. What prompted it was my old Protestant pastor's comment that he thought Luther might be the "false prophet" of revelation (withi the rider, "If there is one", due to Revelation's complexity), with the remark, "Some of the things Luther said and did were not very Christian." He also said, "That's why I very rarely preach on Luther". He didn't either. I found the onlnie version first, and then ordered a hard copy for myself. Needless to say there's a lot in there most Protestants (and these days most Catholics) would not be aware of - Luther's attitude to the peasants, women, Jews, other reformers, anyone who disagreed with him, drunkenness, adultery, lying, and his political consorting with the Princes, his foul language, and the rest. And of course the millions of dead in the Protestant wars - Shirer quoted Germany's population declined from 16 million to 6 million a century later. I've heard other quotes, but whatever the actual figure, the violence and killing was extreme. It's difficult to find anything now which gives these aspects. All one ever hears about in Protestant circles is the business of "faith alone", as though this can somehow be disassociated from his actual actions, or the bloodthirstiness which stemmed from it. |
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| Clare | Thursday, 7. May 2009, 09:29 Post #154 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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Anathema sit! ![]()
No, that's not what I've been saying. I've been saying that other denominations are not Christian. I think I said earlier that I'm not so strict regarding individuals.
Aye.
Yup. |
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S.A.G. Motes 'n' Beams blog Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz! | |
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| OsullivanB | Thursday, 7. May 2009, 10:23 Post #155 |
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Did you perhaps mean "anathema sis"? (Since you appeared to be talking to Ned rather than about him.) Edited by OsullivanB, Thursday, 7. May 2009, 10:24.
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| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| Clare | Thursday, 7. May 2009, 15:14 Post #156 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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If you say so, sir! |
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S.A.G. Motes 'n' Beams blog Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz! | |
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| Rose of York | Thursday, 7. May 2009, 20:48 Post #157 |
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Anathema sit! What does it mean, please? Some of us don't understand Latin. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Deleted User | Thursday, 7. May 2009, 21:06 Post #158 |
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let him be anathema. In essence this is the most extreme punishment pronounced by the church in that the person who is found guilty is not just excommunicated and denied the sacraments but they are put outside of the body of the church so that they can receive no comfort or succour from any the faithful. In a very real sense they are dead to the church and the old service by which the sentence was pronounced was a form of requiem mass in which the Bell tolled the book of Gospels was closed and the candles extinguished, 'Bell Book and Candles' |
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| Derekap | Thursday, 7. May 2009, 21:12 Post #159 |
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Has anyone suffered this punishment in recent centuries? It sounds as if The Church was damning the victim - contrary to Sanctification. |
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| Rose of York | Thursday, 7. May 2009, 21:14 Post #160 |
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I know about anathema, but this is beyond this non linguist: Anathema sit! Edit: Got it! Protestants are anathema. Clare takes them for walkies, and just to get them in the right frame of mind for a lecture about the Papacy, she tell those who are anathema to "sit!" Edited by Rose of York, Thursday, 7. May 2009, 21:16.
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Deleted User | Thursday, 7. May 2009, 22:42 Post #161 |
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In a sense the church is putting the sinner in quarantine, the final judgment as to their fate rests with the Lord. It was a way of ensuring that people were not fooled into giving the person support out of charity while themselves being corrupted by the evil that the person was proclaiming or acting out through their chosen lifestyle or heresy. The Person could recant and be brought back into the fold by penance but usually only by confessing to a higher ecclesiastical authority than the local priest or even Bishop. Some sins are still reserved to bishops and the Holy See, abortion being one that comes to mind. this link is helpful:http://www.cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=11084 Parents sometimes send a child to their room, partly as a punishment, partly to give them space to calm down but also in part to take the child’s influence away from their siblings and other children. Anathema Sit is a fairly draconian way of calling time out and demanding the person changes their ways or they will not be allowed to mix with the other members of the family and if anyone argues with that judgment then they too will be rebuked. |
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| Bob Crowley | Saturday, 9. May 2009, 03:21 Post #162 |
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Your comment "Some sins are still resereved to Bishops and the Holy See.." I was told by a priest, who has majored in ethics, that he, as a priest, had the authority to lift the automatic excommunication for abortion. And to me this would make sense. I can hardly see Bishops and the Holy See having the time to hear the confession of all the women who have had abortions. |
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| Deleted User | Saturday, 9. May 2009, 03:57 Post #163 |
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Being reseved to the local ordinary or to Holy See is in practice the same as saying that a person was prosecuted by the Crown. In reality there are qualified experts who act with the authority delegated to them by the higher Authority. The point is that inorder to absolve a person of certain sins a priest requires a special facultulty. |
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| Deleted User | Saturday, 9. May 2009, 10:14 Post #164 |
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Recent Excommunications
Table of Excommunications From the 1983 Code of Canon Law Supplied by the Faculty of Canon Law of St Paul University, CANON BRIEF DESIGNATION OF OFFENCE & NATURE OF PENALTY 1364, §1 Apostasy, heresy, schism … latae sententiae 1367 Violation of sacred species … latae sententiae (reserved to Holy See) 1370, §1 Physical attack on pope … latae sententiae (reserved to Holy See) 1378, §1 Absolution of an accomplice … latae sententiae (reserved to Holy See) 1378, §3 Pretended celebration of Eucharist or conferral of sacramental absolution by one not a priest … ferendae sententiae (facultative) dependent on gravity of offence 1382 Unauthorized episcopal consecration … latae sententiae (reserved to Holy See ) 1388, §1 Direct violation of confessional seal by confessor … latae sententiae 1388, §2 Violation of confessional seal by interpreter and others … ferendae sententiae (facultative) 1398 Procuring of abortion … latae sententiae latae sententiae means that excommunication is automatic. This is most easily understood in the case of apostasy. It is obvious that if one has become a Jehovah's Witness, for instance, one is automatically no longer a Roman Catholic. The ones that are automatic, but reserved to the Holy See, require the pope's authority to invoke. ferendae sententiae means that excommunication is not automatic, but is possible. Pope Benedict has also declared priests who commit child abuse to be Latae Sententie (reserved to the Holy See) and the list of sins reserved to the Holy See is constantly under review. |
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9:19 AM Jul 11