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| When Is A Protestant Not A Protestant? | |
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| Topic Started: Friday, 7. September 2007, 16:44 (759 Views) | |
| Deleted User | Sunday, 3. May 2009, 13:10 Post #136 |
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Although as Catholics, we generally regard all the non- catholic religions who proclaim them selves to be Christian as Protestant it is actually a specific term referring to a particular group of Christians who protested against Rome. Anglicans/Episcopalians and Methodists/Wesleyans are not protestant although there are elements of the low church Anglican which will have more in common with the Lutheran/ protestant faith than with the High Anglo Catholic element. There are five main groupings of non- catholic religions who through having a Trinitarian baptism can claim to be Christian Orthodox Lutheran Reformed/Presbyterian Anglican/ Episcopalian Methodist/Wesleyan Baptist Interestingly the Salvation Army is not a Christian organisation, in spite of the famous hymn by which they march, this is because they do not require baptism as a rite of admission. To though some members of the army are baptised and then join the army as a sort of Christian association, thus adding to the confusion because they are Christian but the group they represent is not although it acts in the name of Jesus. However, there are many 'Christian groups' who fail to act as Christians. However I am not sure what any of this has to do with the price of cheese. |
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| Rose of York | Sunday, 3. May 2009, 14:52 Post #137 |
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Does the Salvation Army believe in the Trinity? Does it accept that Jesus is divine? |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| OsullivanB | Sunday, 3. May 2009, 15:01 Post #138 |
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They believe both of those truths. http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/usn/www_usn_2.nsf/vw-dynamic-index/CE33D354A0544F368025732500314AF5?Opendocument |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| PJD | Sunday, 3. May 2009, 16:46 Post #139 |
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Add to these numbers all those for counting re Karl Rahner's coined phrase....... 'anonymous Christians'. PJD |
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| tomais | Sunday, 3. May 2009, 19:43 Post #140 |
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Tunnelvisagionists look in here ! So much arrogance when individual souls globally are running around day by day by year to eternity! Christianity may well be morphed into Judaism Islamism Now who will be around to sound off then ? No one knows none; the end of the world will be one day nigh/ Tom |
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| Bob Crowley | Monday, 4. May 2009, 03:20 Post #141 |
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You can read the book online, or print it off for nothing by going to the following link. http://www.tentmaker.org/books/MartinLuther-HitlersSpiritualAncestor.html |
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| Bob Crowley | Monday, 4. May 2009, 03:27 Post #142 |
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Where do the Copts fit in? What's their origin? |
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| Deleted User | Monday, 4. May 2009, 07:58 Post #143 |
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Bob thanks for forcing me back to the books Talking of Catholics and Protestants is to limiting. I listed the 5 main groups of non-catholic Christians (by non-catholic I mean non-Roman Catholic), there are several others. If we wish to engage in meaningful ecumenical dialogue we need to acknowledge the differences and negotiate with the various groups from a position of respecting the true differences rather than simply regarding all from the prejudicial position of classifying anything that is not Roman Catholic as Protestant As I understand it the Copts are often grouped along with the Eastern Orthodox churches but I accept this is an over simplification. The Copts from the point of view of the Roman Catholic Church came into official existence after the formal split resulting from the Council of Chalcedon (Council of Chalcedon (Christianity)) in 451. Copts claim their origins go back to St Mark who founded their church in Alexandria in the first generation of Christianity To add to the confusion there where Copts who accepted the theological rulings of Chalcedon and they became known as Melkite and again these split into those who accept the primacy of Peter and since the 18 centuary have been in full comunion with Rome and others who are in comunion with the Greak Orthodox Church. This I fear is the limit of my knowledge of the subject, O'Ratty over to you. |
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| Bob Crowley | Monday, 4. May 2009, 09:10 Post #144 |
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Well, as my old pastor said as he reflected on his admission that he wondered if Protestants get to heaven, and what he thought seemed to be what God was telling him, "Boy! What a mess!!" |
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| Deleted User | Monday, 4. May 2009, 09:21 Post #145 |
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ALas he was right, |
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| Deleted User | Monday, 4. May 2009, 10:02 Post #146 |
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I have nothing of my own to add here, and nothing at all of a historical or "technical" nature (sterile considerations of "validity" and so on). I wish only to recommend very earnestly two posts by my beloved Father Stephen. Both of these pieces address approaches, attitudes, habits of mind thought of as classically "protestant", but which are becoming broadly characteristic of modern Christianity in general. Father believes, as do I, that these are descriptive of something other than - if not utterly remote from - catholic, apostolic Christianity.
The second, from last week, spoke very directly to me, at the outset of my own second year in Holy Orthodoxy:
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| OsullivanB | Monday, 4. May 2009, 12:59 Post #147 |
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Thank you, Bob. I have printed the book out, and will get back to you when I have had time to read it. I can't predict when that might be. |
| "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer | |
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| Ned | Monday, 4. May 2009, 20:43 Post #148 |
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Hi Clare, I disagree very strongly with most of what you say, but I fear that there is some truth in what you say here. Over the last fifty years there has been a major 'Faith-drift' in big chunks of the Church. It's been quiet and gradual, and people don't seem to have noticed. There have been changes in the meanings and usages of words. About this topic of non-Catholic Christians, and whether they're really Christian. I'd say that it's all down to whether or not they believe in the Blessed Trinity, and that Jesus Christ is God the Son, the Word made Flesh, who died on the cross and rose again; and that belief has to be not just an intellectual belief but a personal commitment to Him. (After all, the demons in Saint Mark's Gospel know for a fact who Jesus is, but they're certainly not Christians.) From what I've seen some Protestants are Christians and some aren't. It depends on the individual. And it's the same with Catholics. Some of them are Christians and some aren't. And in some Catholic churches there can be a sort of pseudo-Christianity - there's a little neglected and unlit High Altar, and then all round the walls there are candles burning to different images of Our Lady - Our Lady of Lourdes, Our Lady of Fatima, a Filipino Our Lady, Our Lady of Prague - all different people, perhaps ? |
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| Derekap | Monday, 4. May 2009, 22:36 Post #149 |
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Ned wrote: "And it's the same with Catholics. Some of them are Christians and some aren't. And in some Catholic churches there can be a sort of pseudo-Christianity - there's a little neglected and unlit High Altar, and then all round the walls there are candles burning to different images of Our Lady - Our Lady of Lourdes, Our Lady of Fatima, a Filipino Our Lady, Our Lady of Prague - all different people, perhaps?" In case anyone should think this is a consequence of Vatican 2 I can assure them such occurred prior to Vatican 2. Penfold's explanation of the Coptic Church's complicated history may not (*) have shown some people that there is a Coptic Orthodox Church which is in Schism and a Coptic Catholic Church as loyal to the Pope as our Latin Rite Church. Both Churches are mainly in Egypt. There is, however, a Coptic Orthodox church in London. (*) If it's just me that's dim - apologies) |
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| pete | Monday, 4. May 2009, 22:41 Post #150 |
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I don’t quite get your point Ned, since when has the High Altar been adorned with lighted candles outside of Mass. When we make visits to the church we do light candles to Our Lady, Saints, and the Sacred Heart but who do you know would light a candle and place it on the High Alter? |
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