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When Is A Protestant Not A Protestant?
Topic Started: Friday, 7. September 2007, 16:44 (756 Views)
Rose of York
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I was discussing things with a man and he said he is Anglo Catholic and protestant.

I thought protestants protested against Catholicism. Some C of E people say they are Catholics.

Are members of the Church of England protestants?

Does anybody know a good protestant and/or a good Anglo Catholic who can enlighten me?

;)
Keep the Faith!

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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Rose of York
Sep 7 2007, 04:44 PM
I was discussing things with a man and he said he is Anglo Catholic and protestant.

I thought protestants protested against Catholicism. Some C of E people say they are Catholics.

Are members of the Church of England protestants?

I think Anglo-Catholics are Protestant!

If a Christian is neither a "papist" nor Eastern Orthodox, he's Protestant.

IMHO!

Clare.
S.A.G.

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Rose of York
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Against what do protestants protest?
Keep the Faith!

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PJD


They deny that Roman Catholicism is the one truly Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church - I think to start with. And from then it just goes on.

PJD
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Rose of York
Sep 7 2007, 06:21 PM
Against what do protestants protest?

The papacy.
S.A.G.

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Rose of York
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PJD
Sep 7 2007, 07:22 PM
They deny that Roman Catholicism is the one truly Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church - I think to start with. And from then it just goes on.

PJD

The Church of England upholds the teachings of the Apostles and Nicene Creeds. They say "I believe in One True Holy and Apostolic Church". I understand Anglicans consider the Church of England to be part of the Catholic Church.

So I guess the main protestation is about the Papacy.

Come in please Colin, I want to hear it from the horse's mouth. :D
Keep the Faith!

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Derekap
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True Protestantism is surely against Transubstantiation among other things in The (Roman) Catholic Church.
Derekap
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JARay

According to the Book of Common Prayer there are only two Sacraments not seven.
I foget which two they are. Anyone really interested can Google "Book of Common Prayer" and their beliefs are listed at the back. Transubsantiation is certainly out Derekap. Reconciliation is also out. Holy Orders is also out, so they do not have any priests because the conferring of Holy Orders by Consecration is denied. I think that Baptism might be in but I'm not sure about Matrimony. If Matrimony is out then divorce is no problem because marriage is not a Sacrament.
I think that it is more than funny that our Anglo Catholics practice these things which they do not believe in!

JARay
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Rose of York
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JARay
Sep 8 2007, 12:08 AM

I think that it is more than funny that our Anglo Catholics practice these things which they do not believe in!

JARay

JaRay they do believe in them, but they do not believe they are sacraments.

Pentecostals, Baptists, Methodists, believe in marriage. They do not have sacraments.

The C of E official line is that it still forbids divorce and remarriage.
Keep the Faith!

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Colin2000

Rose of York
Sep 7 2007, 11:13 PM
JARay
Sep 8 2007, 12:08 AM

I think that it is more than funny that our Anglo Catholics practice these things which they do not believe in!

JARay

JaRay they do believe in them, but they do not believe they are sacraments.

Pentecostals, Baptists, Methodists, believe in marriage. They do not have sacraments.

The C of E official line is that it still forbids divorce and remarriage.

Hi Rose,

Bits and pieces,

Yes with the CofE. Divorce will mean that a couple can not marry again in the Church of England's Church if a partner is divorced!

Problems in the Priesthood also. But I would have to confirm what their present position is. Normally they were out of the priesthood with the divorce but the ground could be shifting!

Anglo-catholics have the seven sacraments smells and bells Church dressed up with paintings on the walls stars on the ceiling and Crucifix on an Altar with six candles, Hang on while I cross myself, as per here in the Roman Church.

Anglicans have two sacraments Baptism and Communion. Of course we need confirmation to confirm that the baptized are believers and a bishop to confirm their baptism. But The confirmation is not a sacrament it is a confirmation of faith and they have been dunked as a baby!

A number of new believers are now been baptised if they were not done as a baby/child. and confirmed by the Bishop. In extreme cases they are baptised by total immersion and confirmed which really is redundant in these circumstances.

Also we have a slight problem with Protestants! We can not really protest against the True and Established Catholic Church in England because we are the True and Established Catholic Church in England. The English Law. The Queen. And Parliament says we are!

Oh and Anglo-catholics also hold confessional on Saturday nights in some of their churches. In the main Anglican Churches Confession and Absolution happens in General confession during the Service of Communion or Morning or Evening Prayer!

So we have two sacraments. Baptism, Communion, Five other ceremonies of various status. Marriage, Confession, confirmation, (Hang about I have Lost two?). Penance, not fashionable, Holy Orders. At present Deacon, Priest, Bishops are ordained/consecrated priest I suppose in case they might have gone off!
JESUS IS LORD


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Rose of York
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Colin I really appreciate your input. This is the first time I have had the opportunity to discuss Anglo Catholicism with an Anglo Catholic who is well informed.

Its funny how I went onto an Anglican forum to ask a few questions and you ended up here talking to us.

We may not agree on everything, but its nice to talk it over in a friendly manner.









Keep the Faith!

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Gerard

Amen to that :D

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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pete

"I, N, do solemnly and sincerely in the presence of God profess, testify, and declare, that I do believe that in the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper there is not any Transubstantiation of the elements of bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ at or after the consecration thereof by any person whatsoever: and that the invocation or adoration of the Virgin Mary or any other Saint, and the Sacrifice of the Mass, as they are now used in the Church of Rome, are superstitious and idolatrous..."

I have inserted the Test Act which was set up by the English Parliament. There was a series of Test Acts introduced into English penal laws that imposed various civil disabilities on Roman Catholics and Nonconformists. The principle that none but persons professing the English Established Church were eligible for public employment and the severe penalties pronounced against recusants, whether Catholic or Nonconformist, were affirmations of this principle.
From the time of the reformation, the new Established Church has used the Catholic Church’s teachings as a pick-and-mix; if they liked the idea it remained as part of the new Established Church’s teachings, if it didn’t they got rid of it. I suppose the Creed was not so bad and they therefore retained it, even so far as the words Holy Catholic Church, which of course they are not, they protested against the Catholic Church and took on the name PROTESTANT.
God bless
Pete
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Colin2000

pete
Sep 8 2007, 07:30 AM
"I, N, do solemnly and sincerely in the presence of God profess, testify, and declare, that I do believe that in the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper there is not any Transubstantiation of the elements of bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ at or after the consecration thereof by any person whatsoever: and that the invocation or adoration of the Virgin Mary or any other Saint, and the Sacrifice of the Mass, as they are now used in the Church of Rome, are superstitious and idolatrous..."


Hi Pete,

Yep I can insult you much better than that but I won't you might hit me! Where did you get that oath from Pete. Interesting but it sounds more Puritan than Protestant??? ....

Is it the Test Act? skirted round it in my studies I am afraid?
This oath reminds me very much of the oath to the Emperor as God for weeding out the goats from the sheep in the Empire. Of course which of us are the goats and which of us are the sheep is another question entirely.

pete
Sep 8 2007, 07:30 AM
I have inserted the Test Act which was set up by the English Parliament. There was a series of Test Acts introduced into English penal laws that imposed various civil disabilities on Roman Catholics and Nonconformists. The principle that none but persons professing the English Established Church were eligible for public employment and the severe penalties pronounced against recusants, whether Catholic or Nonconformist, were affirmations of this principle.


This was quiet true and it will take another couple of generations to lay this ghost! In the beginning it was by fear of the power of the Catholic Church rather than anything else!

The re-establishment of what your Church was rather than is today!

In fact your major disadvantages was not so much your presence in England after a short period of time but you together with the Non-conformity was a real political threat to Crown and Subject!

pete
Sep 8 2007, 07:30 AM


From the time of the reformation, the new Established Church has used the Catholic Church’s teachings as a pick-and-mix; if they liked the idea it remained as part of the new Established Church’s teachings, if it didn’t they got rid of it. I suppose the Creed was not so bad and they therefore retained it, even so far as the words Holy Catholic Church, which of course they are not, they protested against the Catholic Church and took on the name PROTESTANT.
God bless
Pete


A fair comment Pete but off the mark slightly in places.

You had Trent we had a Council within the English Church. You have a stack of Catholic Doctrine because the Papal Authority had the whole of Europe to contend with. We got it up to Thirty-nine to counter Trent because we were looking inward at England not as per His Holiness having to look out from Rome at everybody else.

The pick and mix as you call it was carefully considered pick and mix. Could it be said that Roman Catholicism's tradition from was it the last United Council before the Great Schism of East and West was cleared away. English Catholicism started from there.

An easy step from there into Protestant Reform and more importantly Lutheranism! For years I considered my position was more toward Lutheran Tradition rather than Protestant Tradition! After all how could I protest against myself. Well very easily if you don't know what you are doing as with the pew fodder! They knew what they wanted and needed so Rome lost out I am afraid!

That is why the English Apostolick Catholick position relies on the Apostolic Succession more than it should possibly!

Just a few thoughts to keep the pot boiling perhaps?

Yours in His Everlovingtenderkindness,

Colin.

PS. Fifty years ago this post could have put me on the wrong side of the pale or is it pale.
The Message to post is, "Isn't Jesus Wonderful!"

Colin.
JESUS IS LORD


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pete

My word Colin, you are quick on the mark!!
I do wish that I had more time to discuss this matter, unfortunately I have a sick wife to take care of, together with the shopping, cleaning, cooking, you name it. I came to my computer to look up an appetizing meal before I proceed to the shops. I just love to have a quick glance at this site and see what’s going on (nosey parker as I am).
You will have observed that my postings have slackened off, that is because of my more pressing commitments. I’m sure some of my fellow members will step in and take over where I have become more inactive.
In the meantime Colin, thank you for your full commitment, sadly we could really do with you on our side, I’ll be praying for that.
God bless
Pete
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