Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We hope you enjoy your visit!
You're currently viewing Catholic CyberForum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our online cyberparish, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.
Join our community!
Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of abuse, personal attacks, blasphemy, racism, threats, harrassment, and crude or sexually-explicit language.
If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Locked Topic
The Holy Trinity At Bedtime; The Trinity Explained To A Young Child
Topic Started: Tuesday, 28. April 2009, 23:47 (139 Views)
draig
Member Avatar

I thought I would share this with you all.

Last week I was asked by my young drugget (at bedtime prayers) if The Father, Son & Holy Spirit were all different.

Hmm - first thing, decide if this is a real thirst for knowledge or just the latest in a long line of attempts to put back bedtime.

OK, having decided that drugget was really interested in this, the second thing is PANIC! How do you talk about The Trinity in such a way that an infant can accept?

I explained that all three were different but were all parts of the same God. Good theology, but only getting a glazed look from drugget. Help!

I then got a bit of Divine inspiration and told drugget that Father, Son and Holy Spirit were different jobs for God to do for people, explaining that it was like me, for some people I do different jobs - I am Daddy to him but 'Husband to Mummy, Brother to Uncle D, Uncle to N and at work I am draig.

He seemed to think about this a bit so I then pointed out that 'drugget is my son, nephew to Uncle D, cousin to N and friend to X, Y & Z at school. You do all of these jobs but you are only a single drugget'.

Result, one happy drugget. I don't know if he understood what I was getting at or if he was just happy that I included him in my answer, but he did say his prayers and go to sleep (eventually!).

I don't know about accepting the kingdom of God like a child, but it is definately difficult to try and explain it to a child!
Gripe. Moan. Snipe. Ignore any inconvenient truth. Don't provide specific data. Don't, whatever you do, provide links to hard evidence. The Traditional Way To Maintain A Discussion.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Thanks draig. I've just had a very similar experience with my 5 year old granddaughter, who decided to make up her own prayers to "God and Jesus" I'll try your analogy as soon as the opportunity arises again.
Incidentally her father,(who no longer practises his faith) was present, and told her about a business trip to Holywell a couple of years ago. He was literally next door to the church and went inside. He said he felt the presence of the Holy Spirit very strongly there. I do remember him telling me that on his return. That little additional tale is apropos nothing at all except that you're a Welsh dragon and might find it interesting. :grin:

KatyA
Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
What more could you do, Draig? Refer little drugget to Vatican documents? You have given him a basic idea, though not said there are three persons in one God. I honestly do not know how I would explain that to a five year old. Anyway you have given little drugget food for thought.

I am pretty sure that when I was at a Catholic school, we were seven when we had complete lessons about Jesus being God made man. That was part of First Communion preparation. Little was said about the Holy Spirit, until confirmation preparation, about six years later.
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Fortunatus

Well done, draig. I think that will do exceedingly well as a starting point!
If that wasn't divine inspiration it was something remarkably similar. I'll run it past my PP next time I see him; I think he'll be impressed.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
draig
Member Avatar

KatyA
 
That little additional tale is apropos nothing at all except that you're a Welsh dragon and might find it interesting.
I did find it interesting but actually I'm an English Dragon, although with Welsh heritage. I've lived most of my life in North Wales but I have never wanted to pay a visit to St Winefride's well - I've just never felt the need. Now, if ever I get decapitated...

Rose of York
 
What more could you do, Draig? Refer little drugget to Vatican documents? ...

I am pretty sure that when I was at a Catholic school, we were seven when we had complete lessons about Jesus being God made man. That was part of First Communion preparation. Little was said about the Holy Spirit, until confirmation preparation, about six years later.

Rose, I think Vatican documents would not even be of use to me, I seldom get through the first paragraph before stopping to think that if Jesus used language like this then He would still be trying to get a group of disciples together.

This term RE at school is concentrating on 'celebration of the gift of the Holy Spirit' - no doubt that is what first triggered the thought process in drugget's mind, although tonight he was back down to earth and talking about the bacteria in our water (we have a contamination issue and we're currently having to boil all of our water).
Gripe. Moan. Snipe. Ignore any inconvenient truth. Don't provide specific data. Don't, whatever you do, provide links to hard evidence. The Traditional Way To Maintain A Discussion.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Mairtin
Member Avatar

draig
Wednesday, 29. April 2009, 23:22
Rose of York
 
What more could you do, Draig? Refer little drugget to Vatican documents? ...

Rose, I think Vatican documents would not even be of use to me, I seldom get through the first paragraph before stopping to think that if Jesus used language like this then He would still be trying to get a group of disciples together.
It's not just the documents, it's those who place theological concepts above the problems us mere laypeople face in trying to live out our Faith on a daily basis.

I used almost exactly your analogy on a different Catholic forum - adding that I knew it wasn't quite right but it works for me - and was told off for expounding the condemned heresy of Modalism :wacko:

Mind you, the same poster reckoned St Patrick was also a Modalist for using the shamrock to explain the Trinity - if he ever actually did that - so I'm in good company :rofl:
Edited by Mairtin, Saturday, 2. May 2009, 08:15.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Emee
Member Avatar

Not forgetting the triangle Mairtin!

What still puzzles me, however, in thinking of the Trinity being God but in three different roles, is why Jesus spoke and prayed to His Father? I don't believe this is God praying to Himself, I believe they really ARE three separate Persons but all linked together in the Oneness that is God. I can't see any other explanation.

"This is My Beloved Son. Listen to Him."

"Our Father who art in Heaven..."

"Father if it be Your Will let this cup pass me by..."

That doesn't sound like God talking to Himself to me.

Hence the God triangle linking the three Persons in one God still holds good for me...
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
draig
Member Avatar

As I understand, in Deuteronomy 6:4 the Hebrew word for 'one' was not 'yachid' which means 'the only one' (as in Genesis 22:2) but 'echad' which means 'unity' or 'united one'. It is the term 'echad' which is used to describe the composite unity of husband and wife in Genesis 2:24. Therefore I use that as the foundation for my belief that the three persons of The Trinity are separate, but united in one mystical body. Therefore the conversations between Jesus and The Father flow naturally from that.

Quote:
 
Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord"

Gen 22:2 "He said to him: Take thy only begotten son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and go into the land of vision; and there thou shalt offer him for an holocaust upon one of the mountains which I will show thee"

Genesis 2:24 "Wherefore a man shall leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they shall be two in one flesh"

Quotes from Douay-Rheims via New Advent http://www.newadvent.org/bible/

I can't really explain the composite unity to my son, who has Autistic Spectrum Disorder and so only has the barest concept of other people. However I will, as his awareness of others develops, begin to explain the idea of a composite unity of The Trinity by comparing it to the composite unity of our nuclear family.

The higher theological split between those who believe that The Trinity are aspects of One Person as perceived by the faithful believer and those who believe that The Trinity are Three Separate Persons in one God seems way above the level of this poor layman, but I don't think that Jesus would condemn anyone who believed the former.

I believe Jesus simply wants us to 'Live The Word' and not argue over such fine differences. It's no wonder I have such trouble with Vatican documents.
Gripe. Moan. Snipe. Ignore any inconvenient truth. Don't provide specific data. Don't, whatever you do, provide links to hard evidence. The Traditional Way To Maintain A Discussion.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
draig
Saturday, 2. May 2009, 14:36
I believe Jesus simply wants us to 'Live The Word' and not argue over such fine differences. It's no wonder I have such trouble with Vatican documents.
If there was no internet, you would not have access to many Vatican documents, and then you would not worry about them. I'm as bad, but if I find a document hard to understand, I stop trying.

We used to rely upon our priests to preach to us, at a certain level. They taught us that the Trinity is a mystery, which means we can learn about it, but cannot fully understand. Now, the world is full of amateur theologians (I do not mean draig).

Jesus revealed his relationship with the Father and the Spirit, I believe him, but I don't quite grasp it.
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

draig
Saturday, 2. May 2009, 14:36


I believe Jesus simply wants us to 'Live The Word' and not argue over such fine differences. It's no wonder I have such trouble with Vatican documents.

Draig the story with which you opened this thread is testimony to the profound faith that you have and wish to share. We do over complicate things far too often.

Jesus gave us 2 commandments, to love God and to Love our neighbour. All else stem from these.

:1st: class catechist, drugget is a lucky chap to have you as a teacher.
Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
« Previous Topic · Archived Discussions · Next Topic »
Locked Topic