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Tridentine Rite/Extraordinary Form of Mass
Topic Started: Wednesday, 11. October 2006, 23:13 (1,457 Views)
Rose of York
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Independent Catholic News
 
Papal document expected to expand permission for Tridentine Mass

Dan Bergin

The Holy Father is preparing to expand permission to use the Tridentine Mass, according to Rome news sources. The Pope is expected to issue a document 'motu proprio,' on the issue.

The Tridentine rite is currently available to groups of Catholics who ask and receive permission for its use from their local bishops. The old rite is celebrated in Latin and follows the Roman Missal of 1962, which was replaced in 1969 with the new Roman Missal.

Canadian Archbishop James Weisgerber of Winnipeg, Manitoba, said the new indult was apparently motivated by a desire to bring comfort to older people who may miss the old rite. But in his archdiocese, he said, the few people asking for it are "young people who never experienced it."

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Rose of York
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Independent Catholic News
 

Canadian Archbishop James Weisgerber of Winnipeg, Manitoba, said the new indult was apparently motivated by a desire to bring comfort to older people who may miss the old rite.

Comfort? Comfort? We have experienced more changes in all aspects of our lives, than any other.

When we want something badly enough we shout aloud. We are the ones who fought for equal pay, sick pay, protection from unfair dismissal, and now we are fighting to bring back reverence in our churches. I personally am happy with the modern rite (the language could do with improvement), but:

I am sick of irreverence (in some, but not all churches)
I am sick of sloppily dressed clergy and servers (in some, but not all churches)
I want to hear some decent Hell Fire and Brimstone preaching
I want an end to the irreverent nonsense of people walking away after receiving Holy Communion with as much reverence as a yob strolling along the street with a Mexican Take-Away.

Yes, I am a flaming nuisance, I WANT.

They can keep their patronising comfort.
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Patrick
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I don't see how issuing another Motu Proprio on the matter will make a blind bit of difference to the situation - if a Bishop doesn't want to give permission for the Tridentine Mass to be celebrated in parishes, then he doesn't have to.

How will issuing another Motu Proprio alter that?
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Rose of York
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I cannot see it being practical outside larger cities, because so many churches are down to just one Mass on Sundays. Some have just one Mass, and it is on Saturday.

However I do feel all should be shown due consideration where it is possible.
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Patrick
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Patrick
Oct 12 2006, 02:04 AM
I don't see how issuing another Motu Proprio on the matter will make a blind bit of difference to the situation - if a Bishop doesn't want to give permission for the Tridentine Mass to be celebrated in parishes, then he doesn't have to.

How will issuing another Motu Proprio alter that?

Since my earlier post, an article from The Times expanding on the forthcoming 'motu proprio':

Quote:
 
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October 11, 2006


Pope set to bring back Latin Mass that divided the Church


By Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent

 
THE Pope is taking steps to revive the ancient tradition of the Latin Tridentine Mass in Catholic churches worldwide, according to sources in Rome.
Pope Benedict XVI is understood to have signed a universal indult — or permission — for priests to celebrate again the Mass used throughout the Church for nearly 1,500 years. The indult could be published in the next few weeks, sources told The Times.

Use of the Tridentine Mass, parts of which date from the time of St Gregory in the 6th century and which takes its name from the 16th-century Council of Trent, was restricted by most bishops after the reforms of the Second Vatican Council (1962-65).

This led to the introduction of the new Mass in the vernacular to make it more accessible to contemporary audiences. By bringing back Mass in Latin, Pope Benedict is signalling that his sympathies lie with conservatives in the Catholic Church.

One of the most celebrated rebels against its suppression was Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, who broke with Rome in 1988 over this and other reforms. He was excommunicated after he consecrated four bishops, one of them British, without permission from the Pope.

Some Lefebvrists, including those in Brazil, have already been readmitted. An indult permitting the celebration of the Tridentine Mass could help to bring remaining Lefebvrists and many other traditional Catholics back to the fold.

The priests of England and Wales are among those sometimes given permission to celebrate the Old Mass according to the 1962 Missal. Tridentine Masses are said regularly at the Oratory and St James’s Spanish Place in London, but are harder to find outside the capital.

The new indult would permit any priest to introduce the Tridentine Mass to his church, anywhere in the world, unless his bishop has explicitly forbidden it in writing.

Catholic bloggers have been anticipating the indult for months. The Cornell Society blog says that Father Martin Edwards, a London priest, was told by Cardinal Joseph Zen, of Hong Kong, that the indult had been signed. Cardinal Zen is alleged to have had this information from the Pope himself in a private meeting.

“There have been false alarms before, not least because within the Curia there are those genuinely well-disposed to the Latin Mass, those who are against and those who like to move groups within the Church like pieces on a chessboard,” a source told The Times. “But hopes have been raised with the new pope. It would fit with what he has said and done on the subject. He celebrated in the old rite, when Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.”

The 1962 Missal issued by Pope John XXIII was the last of several revisions of the 1570 Missal of Pius V. In a lecture in 2001, Cardinal Ratzinger said that it would be “fatal” for the Missal to be “placed in a deep-freeze, left like a national park, a park protected for the sake of a certain kind of people, for whom one leaves available these relics of the past”.

Daphne McLeod, chairman of Pro Ecclesia et Pontifice, a UK umbrella group that campaigns for the restoration of traditional orthodoxy, said: “A lot of young priests are teaching themselves the Tridentine Mass because it is so beautiful and has prayers that go back to the Early Church.”


Full article can be read HERE

It's great to hear that the permission has now been taken out of the Bishops' hands and given to Priests. A Bishop will only be able to forbid the Tridentine Mass if he explicitly forbids it in writing. Hopefully, the Priests will make full use of the Indult.

It's not the means to an end, and cetainly doesn't resolve the problem of the '1988 excommunications', but it is a good step forward by the Pope.
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Patrick
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Good to see the readers of Corriere della Sera voting in favour for a return to the Latin Mass - the count so far:

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:D
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Added @ 00.59:

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Derekap

The pros are hardly overwhelming!
Derekap
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CARLO
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Derekap
Oct 12 2006, 09:57 PM
The pros are hardly overwhelming!

Derek

I think in Parliamentary terms the Pros would be said to have "a comfortable working majority".

Laudate!
Rejoice!


:D

CARLO
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Rose of York
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Derek they are not overwhelming, but they are very significant.

A lot of members know how I feel about minorities such as physically disabled parishioners being excluded because being a "minority" they need not be catered for. Well whether the people who love Tridentine Mass are a minority or a majority, we should do our best to provide for them.

Also, if Tridentine Mass is "kept alive" there will be a visible "benchmark" of correct rubrics.
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Patrick
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Can anyone 'see' into the future here?

With diocesan Priests getting older and dying off, whilst the seminaries are hardly at max capacity, and more younger people looking to Tradition and becoming Traditional Priests with their seminaries fuller than their diocesan counterparts?

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Rose of York
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Patrick, I do not think that is happening in Britain. Some religious orders in this country are having increased vocations to priesthood, so is Westminster. Admittedly some dioceses are in a sorry state, but I have heard nothing about young people in this country flocking to traditionalist seminaries.
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Patrick
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Rose of York
Oct 13 2006, 01:54 AM
Patrick, I do not think that is happening in Britain. Some religious orders in this country are having increased vocations to priesthood, so is Westminster. Admittedly some dioceses are in a sorry state, but I have heard nothing about young people in this country flocking to traditionalist seminaries.

Rose,

I was talking generally, worldwide if you like.
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CARLO
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I do not subscribe to the 'wait for it all to collapse then only the trads will be left theory'.

It is dangerous nonsense.

Veritas
Truth

CARLO
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Rose of York
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Patrick
Oct 13 2006, 01:27 AM
Can anyone 'see' into the future here?

With diocesan Priests getting older and dying off, whilst the seminaries are hardly at max capacity, and more younger people looking to Tradition and becoming Traditional Priests with their seminaries fuller than their diocesan counterparts?

I "see" a Church decimated by loss of numbers over a long period. Those with strong faith, and loyalty, remain. There are few "fellow travellers" attending Mass out of habit or due to family or peer pressure. Our numbers are boosted by influx of Catholics from overseas. We have a good strong nucleus. It is our responsibility (with help from the hierarchy) to feed it, make it grow.

Decline management - OUT!
Hope for the future - IN!
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Derekap
Oct 12 2006, 10:57 PM
The pros are hardly overwhelming!

If they weren't then, Derek, they are now:

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