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| General chat about liturgy | |
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| Topic Started: Sunday, 23. November 2008, 17:04 (569 Views) | |
| Rose of York | Sunday, 23. November 2008, 17:04 Post #1 |
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What's going on? Catholic forums used to have lots of posts about liturgy. That seems to be dying down. Could it be that we have less to moan about now than in the past? |
  Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards | |
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| Fortunatus | Sunday, 23. November 2008, 17:23 Post #2 |
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No, Rose, I think it's just that we're a bit weary of rehearsing the same old arguments. You can only go on for so long talking past each other. 
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| JRJ | Sunday, 23. November 2008, 20:24 Post #3 |
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Today's liturgy was the first "folk Mass" I have experienced at my new parish. All the other Masses have been wonderful. This one included a short plea for volunteers from a layperson during the homily and 2 "Yahweh" hymns. All the music was to guitar strumming. Ugh. Participation in the singing and attention spans in general were significantly down from the more traditional masses. I am a convert, and days like these leave me wondering what the Bishops of the US have been thinking all these years. My generation (early 40's now) has been the victim of complete experimentation in all areas of life - morals, culture, education and worship - and none of it for the good. |
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Jennifer hubby's dinosaur blog | |
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| SeanJ | Sunday, 23. November 2008, 22:50 Post #4 |
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The bishops in the US haven't been thinking. Neither have those in the rest of the world. |
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| Fortunatus | Monday, 24. November 2008, 14:49 Post #5 |
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The aging hippies — who will now be out in force after that shocking posting, JRJ — have so much of their credibility tied up in that sort of Mass that they dare not let go. Why this is so I wouldn't dare to guess at but they do appear to think that if you're not singing along to Kumbaya or its offspring or that at least one lay person is making some sort of announcement about something (anything will do, usually) then you are not "participating". Furthermore if you dare challenge one iota of this stuff you are hell-bent on destroying the Spirit of Vatican 2 and consigning the Church to the bad old days before Catholicism was really invented (about 1967 I think, during the Summer of Love perhaps). Those of us who had good experiences of the Tridentine Mass and are prepared to have equally good experiences of the Novus Ordo if Father Folkmass and the Trendies would only act their age for a change would dearly love to see the bishops (in the UK and the USA) get a grip of the meaningless pseudo-emotional, egotistical claptrap which they have allowed some parishes to get away with over the last 40 years. Is that the sort of thing you were looking for, Rose? 
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| Rose of York | Monday, 24. November 2008, 15:59 Post #6 |
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It is so because Mrs Bouquet wants to be iseen to be important.
If you dare say that something that happens is forbidden, by the Vatican, Mrs Bouquet will snarl "How come you think you know so much? Have you been looking at the internet? There is loads of rubbish on there, so how can you know what is correct and what is not? If it is true the Vatican has a website, that will be for the use of bishops and priests, not YOU."
The problem is not caused solely by Father Folkmass and the trendies. Some of the priests who want to give their people good experiences of the celebration of Mass are scared stiff of standing up to parishioners who boss them about.
Reading that little outburst beats watching the pre-Budget Report on the goggle box.  
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Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards | |
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| JRJ | Monday, 24. November 2008, 17:38 Post #7 |
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Shocking??  Oopsie. Just call me one exhausted guinea pig. 
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Jennifer hubby's dinosaur blog | |
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| Fortunatus | Monday, 24. November 2008, 18:50 Post #8 |
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Rose, anything beats watching the pre-Budget Report! Where shall we go with our 60 quid 
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| Rose of York | Monday, 24. November 2008, 20:13 Post #9 |
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Set up a Cyberfund for the foundation of D.O.L.L.s. Disposal Of LadIes Liturgical Seminars |
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Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards | |
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| Derekap | Monday, 24. November 2008, 22:00 Post #10 |
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Fortunatus should watch and listen to the Hispanic Holy Mass from the Cathedral in San Antonio, Texas, USA by coutesy of Boston Catholic TV on Sundays. They have different musicians and singers every week. They can vary from the first to the second childhood and can include Guitars, Maraccas, bones, tambourines, keyboards etc. It is mainly in Spanish but with one reading and parts of the introduction, sermon and Bidding Prayers in Armerican. |
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| Fortunatus | Monday, 24. November 2008, 22:16 Post #11 |
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Why should I, Derek? It sounds awful. I assume the musicians are professionals in which case it will probably be preferable to the caterwauling of our amateur guitar/flute/violin combo and if it is a part of the traditional culture (which in San Antonio is possible) then it is acceptable to them. I'm not aware that maraccas, bones and tambourines (which in my experience of folk Masses are usually played by being bashed on the over-tightly jeans-clad backsides of women in their late thirties with hippy hairstyles and floral earth mother blouses and no bras — you'd think just occasionally they could overcome the stereotype, but no!) are part of the traditional culture of Western Europe. Where did we ever come up with the idea of throwing out of the window the musical tradition of centuries and replacing it with mediocre mock-folk hymns played by mediocre mock-folk singers? By the way, by 'American' in this context do you mean 'English' or are we to assume that "let us pray" has been replaced by "yo, guys! Git prayin'"? |
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| Clare | Monday, 24. November 2008, 22:43 Post #12 |
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What Fortunatus said. |
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S.A.G. My attempt at a blog. | |
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| Emee | Monday, 24. November 2008, 22:50 Post #13 |
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Hi Derek Yes it would be part of their traditional culture and therefore sounds great to watch and listen to. |
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| Rose of York | Monday, 24. November 2008, 23:05 Post #14 |
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That was my reaction. I could say everybody should watch EWTN daily and Sunday Masses. Why should they? I look forward to them, some would not. |
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Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards | |
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| Derekap | Wednesday, 26. November 2008, 15:17 Post #15 |
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This is another example where it is virtually impossible to express voice inflexion in words and thus one gives a misleading impression.[/quote] But whilst I'm on line I would say that I have heard some excruciating examples of more classic versions of Holy Mass by very sincere well-meaning enthusiastic choirs. It does not mean, in my opinion, that classical style music is automatically suitable and inspiring. By the time I've heard "Miserere Nobis for the umpteenth time I'm ready to ask the choir that. Recently I even read of a pre-V2 Bishop in this country who got fed-up of the choir singing a long-winded Credo started the Offertory and when there was a moment's pause in the singing loudly started his next prayer. |
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3:40 PM Nov 25