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Another Vatican Controversy; Archbisop of Linz
Topic Started: Wednesday, 4. February 2009, 00:10 (533 Views)
Angus Toanimo
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Translation, albeit Babelfish
Edited by Angus Toanimo, Tuesday, 17. February 2009, 13:12.
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OsullivanB

Patrick, this doesn't seem to have been a Mass.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Rose of York
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We are trying to discuss the appointment in Austria.

:hijacked:

For me, the beauty of this forum is that it is a place to discuss and debate, we put our points in an intelligent and courteous manner. Our posting statistics compared with other UK based forums show that we are consistently in the lead, albeit slightly. I put it down to the manner in which we usually debate.

Do we have to become a clone of the forums where people descend to posting videos of events that did not even happen in this country, and some of which may not necessarily be Catholic?
Keep the Faith!

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Angus Toanimo
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Rose of York
Tuesday, 17. February 2009, 13:36
Do we have to become a clone of the forums where people descend to posting videos of events that did not even happen in this country, and some of which may not necessarily be Catholic?
No we don't. You're entirely correct, Rose. My sincere apologies for posting a picture of the Archbishop of Salzburg, which may not necessarily be Catholic.

:wh:
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
OsullivanB
Tuesday, 17. February 2009, 13:21
Patrick, this doesn't seem to have been a Mass.
I daresay that what the money-changers in the Temple were getting upto was not the liturgy of the time. But did Our Lord just shrug and say "At least it's not the liturgy!"?

There's a time and a place!
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Rose of York
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:topicbaack: :pl:
Keep the Faith!

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From the statement of the Bishops of Austria, signed and released today:

"4. There were problems of communication also in the recent appointment of an auxiliary bishop for the Diocese of Linz. The bishops are aware that Fr Wagner asked the Pope to withdraw the appointment. The theme of Episcopal appointments is therefore important because since the mid-eighties in Austria it has been associated with a number of problems. For many, the controversy over episcopal appointments led to a painful conflict, and they have triggered splits in the church,. It is precisely in this area that sensitivity is most appropriate. There is no question that the Pope is free to appoint bishops. The bishops do not want to go back in time where - as in 1918 - the Emperor alone chose the bishops. Even a 'popular choice' of the bishops would divide the church into parties and conflicts would be inevitable. We bishops are convinced that the procedure provided for in canon law for the selection and the examination of candidates has proved its worth, if this procedure is really followed. Therefore, before the Holy Father takes the final decision, reliable and thoroughly tested basic information must be provided on which he can rely. In Austria in the next few years a number of bishops are to be appointed. The faithful are legitimately concerned that the process of candidate search, examination of the proposals and the final decisions should be carefully undertaken and with pastoral sensitivity are possible. This can ensure that bishops are appointed who are not 'against' but 'for' a local church. We bishops will make every possible effort to support the forthcoming episcopal appointments in the sense of monitoring these procedures in close cooperation with the relevant Vatican offices."
....
"Trusting in God's help, we will overcome the crisis of recent weeks." [Adapted according to original text]


There was no true "crisis", but open revolt against the Pope, inflamed and supported by the shameless Bishops of Austria, first among them the Cardinal-Archbishop of Vienna. If the Pope does not intervene urgently in this case, if a PUBLIC response is not given - since the Bishops of Austria chose to make the matter public - the perception of the authority of the Pope in Europe is finished. The anti-Roman rebellion of the Austrian Bishops is intolerable.

Rorate Caeli
Pray for Pope Benedict
KatyA
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Gerard

If the pope was working with the bishops there would be no "rebellion" or no "communication problems"

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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If the bishops were working with the Pope, there would be no rebellion or communications problems.
KatyA
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Gerard

Despotism is not the model for church leadership, though there is much history of it in the past. Church leadership is supposed to be collaborative. This pope is not talking with the bishops (who are his equals) but is dictating to them and/or talking past them. Under such circumstances resistance is the inevitable consequence.

Reminds me of the schism with the Orthodox (and, incidently, reunification with them would bring some balance back to the leadership)

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Linz Diocesan Bishop asked Wagner to resign - Italian Vatican expect Rodari: Vatican undecided on how to now proceed with Gerhard Wagner - Church expert: Wagner may take back his resignation at any time!

Würzburg (kath.net)

Did Gerhard Wagner resign voluntarily? According to information from the "Tagespost" the Bishop of Linz, Ludwig Schwarz, due to a variety of criticism and threats to the appointed Bishop a question asked for his resignation on Friday. Wagner himself wrote that he had taken this decision "in prayer and after consultation with the diocesan bishop". The "Tagespost" also reported that for the Viennese Nunciature the events on Sunday evening was a complete surprise. Up to the present the resignation of Wagner has not been accepted by the Holy Father.

The Italian Vatican Expert, Paolo Rodari reported on Tuesday that the Vatican is currently undecided on what to do and that matters are still on hold. Rodari writes for kath.net this opinion: "There are those on the one hand, who hold it is impossible that before the bishop's appointment the Congregation did not know of Wagner's statements in the past. And that's why there are some who think that, after Wagner for was judged selectable as a bishop, no step backward can be taken and that , on the contrary, in no way should his request to resign be accepted.


Full story Cathcon
Perhaps it's not over yet.

KatyA
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OsullivanB

Let's look on the bright side. After this no-one will be able to claim for a long time that the Catholic Church is over-organised.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Wagner's resignation "is not totally voluntary"
His resignation was not totally voluntary, said the Bishop-designate of Linz Maria Gerhard Wagner in an interview with the German newspaper "Tagespost". He had feared to lose the support of Bishop Ludwig Schwarz.

"No longer a further basis"
The interview with the Tagespost was already undertaken on Tuesday evening. Ultimately he could – according to Wagner - "envisage no basis for a fruitful work as a bishop." "The deaneries perhaps I could convince, but what happens when the bishop gets scared?" said the Linz Bishop-designate. The ideas that he would be disinvited from confirmations and turned away from visitations of the parishes, along with "the anxiety and distress" of the diocesan bishop led to the resignation of Wagner are reported by the "Tagespost". Resignation on Sunday The designated Linz Maria Bishop Gerhard Wagner on Sunday asked on Sunday for his nomination to be withdrawn. "Given the fierce criticism, I am in prayer, and after consultation with the diocesan bishop came to the conclusion to ask the Holy Father in Rome to withdraw my nomination as Bishop of Linz, he said on Sunday in a statement published by the Diocese of Linz.

Cathcon
The blog goes on to quote Canon Law;Can. 188 A resignation made out of grave fear that is inflicted unjustly or out of malice, substantial error, or simony is invalid by the law itself.
I'm not certain if there has been a formal acceptance of Fr Wagner's resignation
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Gerard

This story is over.
Has been over for over a week.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Seems you are right Gerard. According to Kathnet, the Pope has appointed Viennese pastoral theologian Paul M. Zulehner to be the new Bishop of Linz. The appointment will be announced tomorrow. kathnet
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