Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We hope you enjoy your visit!
You're currently viewing Catholic CyberForum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our online cyberparish, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.
Join our community!
Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of abuse, personal attacks, blasphemy, racism, threats, harrassment, and crude or sexually-explicit language.
If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
The Tablet
Topic Started: Saturday, 6. October 2007, 01:42 (1,082 Views)
Derekap
Member Avatar

It is very much easier to serve a Novus Ordo Holy Mass than a Tridentine Holy Mass. In my last parish where I was known I did not hesitate to serve Holy Mass if there was no regular server and did so often. In a strange parish church, if I was fit enough, I would hesitate unless asked.

Derekap
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Angus Toanimo
Member Avatar
Administrator
Rose of York
Friday, 21. August 2009, 12:22
Patrick
Friday, 21. August 2009, 09:14
Obviously they've never heard of interior participation - I guess if you can't bang a bongo, crash a cymbal, strum a guitar or able to worm your way into the sanctuary I guess you can't join in.

:wh:
Now now, Patrick, readers do not worm their way into the sanctuary, they are appointed. I used to read, do you think my motive was to worm my way in? Did I do it for myself, or was I using a God given gift, to proclaim the scriptures clearly.
I know they're appointed, Rose. ;)

So, were you called to the Ministry of Reading or was a decision you made, something that you wanted to do?

Quote:
 
Banging bongos, crashing cymbals, strummed guitars, no mention of wheezing organs. In the UK it is not usual for musicians to be in the sanctuary. For someone who has not attended Novus Ordo Mass for years you are in no position to comment. I know of a church that has a delightful string quartet. They play in an alcove and provide excellent accompaniment for the sung Mass.


I never said owt about musicians in the sanctuary.

Quote:
 
Let those who complain about modern musical instruments in church, take lessons, learn to play the organ, and offer their services to their priest.


I can only play Kum Bah Yah on the triangle.

Quote:
 
Let those men who object to female altar servers volunteer to undergo training as servers.


Done that, in both Novus Ordo and Tridentine.
Quote:
 

Let those men who complain there was no server at Mass, walk up the aisle, enter the sanctuary, assist the priest. How difficult is to to hand the priest the wine and water, lavabo bowl, jug of water and a towel, and to ring a bell?


It's child's play.

Quote:
 
Let those men who say "I only learned to serve Tridentine" learn how to serve at Novus Ordo Mass.


There isn't really much to learn, apart from how to tie your cincture, to remember not to wear trainers, and to look fairly bored and gormless until you have to get up, go and do something very simple and sit back down again.
Posted Image
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Bishop Hopes, one of the auxiliaries of Westminster, has written a letter published in this weekend's Tablet and responding to the recent editorial entitled "The Old Rite put in its place". In his letter he echoes the Archbishop of Westminster's gratitude to those priests who have given up their time to respond to a need in the Church today
Quote:
 
I am writing with regard to your leader “The old rite put in its place” (8 August). In his message welcoming priests to the training conference provided by the Diocese of Westminster in conjunction with the Latin Mass Society, Archbishop Nichols expresses his gratitude to those priests who have given up their time to respond to a need in the Church today.

By providing this conference for priests wishing to learn the extraordinary rite, the Diocese of Westminster is not only affirming the import ance of the worthy celebration of the liturgy and the proper attention that priests should pay to good celebration but also reminding us that the diocesan bishop is the moderator, promoter and guardian of the whole of the diocese’s liturgical life. He is not “seeking to nip potential schism in the bud” or suggesting that the place of the Tridentine Rite is “necessarily marginal”.

Just as Pope Benedict pointed out in the letter he sent to the Church’s bishops to accompany “Summorum Pontificum”, so the archbishop notes the relationship between the ordinary and the extraordinary forms. Above all he emphasises the importance of the Mass as the “source and expression of the unity of the Church”. In this Year for Priests, Archbishop Vincent recognises the responsibility priests face whatever the form the liturgy takes – the active participation of all. This is an idea, common to papal teaching on the liturgy from the beginning of the twentieth century. This “active participation” has always been understood to be internal and external. To reduce participation to solely external signs is both a simplification and a misguided attack in the “culture wars” you seek to avoid.

(Bishop) Alan Hopes
Auxiliary Bishop of Westminster, London SW1

Fr Boyle's blog
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Angus Toanimo
Member Avatar
Administrator
From Holy Smoke

Quote:
 

Westminster diocese attacks Tablet for stoking up 'culture wars' over Latin Mass

The Tablet has been sternly corrected by Bishop Alan Hopes, auxiliary of Westminster diocese, for an editorial a couple of weeks ago in which it suggested that Archbishop Vincent Nichols was trying to control supporters of the traditional Latin Mass in order to relegate them to a “necessarily marginal” place.

As Will Heaven said at the time, the Tablet grossly misrepresented the Archbishop’s message to a training conference for priests learning to say the older form of the Roman Rite. And now Bishop Hopes has responded on his boss’s behalf, in a letter published in this week’s issue. He writes:

[The Archbishop] is not ‘seeking to nip potential schism in the bud’ or suggesting that the place of the Tridentine Rite is ‘necessarily marginal’ …

And, regarding the Tablet’s implication that the Archbishop shares its view that worshippers at the older Mass do not participate:

… ‘active participation’ has always been understood to be internal and external. To reduce participation to solely external signs is both a simplification and a misguided attack in the ‘culture wars’ you seek to avoid.”

It’s no secret that the Tablet didn’t want Vincent Nichols to become Archbishop of Westminster. Now that he’s got the job, it’s continuing to pick fights and play juvenile tricks on him. Way to go, Ma.
Posted Image
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rose of York
Member Avatar
Administrator
Patrick
Tuesday, 25. August 2009, 01:51
From Holy Smoke

Quote:
 

Westminster diocese attacks Tablet for stoking up 'culture wars' over Latin Mass

The Tablet has been sternly corrected by Bishop Alan Hopes, auxiliary of Westminster diocese, for an editorial a couple of weeks ago in which it suggested that Archbishop Vincent Nichols was trying to control supporters of the traditional Latin Mass in order to relegate them to a “necessarily marginal” place.
They must be joking! Supporters of the Latin Mass are people who make their own minds up, do not follow the crowd like sheep.

I would prefer control of the types who seek to control others by forcing "participation" when one is not in the mood for singing, for example immediately following a bereavement.
Quote:
 
… ‘active participation’ has always been understood to be internal and external. To reduce participation to solely external signs is both a simplification and a misguided attack in the ‘culture wars’ you seek to avoid.”
Keep the Faith!

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Angus Toanimo
Member Avatar
Administrator
Good to see that CatholicCulture.org has completed a Site Review of The Tablet website and considers it dangerous:

http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/reviews/view.cfm?recnum=2645

Quote:
 
The Tablet is an international Catholic newspaper published in the UK. The website contains an archive of articles and editorials, links, documents, and subscriber information.

The Tablet's editor states, "Readers can be confident that The Tablet will be a paper of progressive, but responsible Catholic thinking, a place where orthodoxy is at home but ideas are welcome." Unfortunately, the progressive thinking in this paper shows a distinct tendency towards supporting dissident theologians over the Magisterium. This site may be useful for more secular news, but as far as Catholicism goes it is better avoided....


The review goes on to list the reasons why it is considered a danger (click on the link above).

Posted Image
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gerard

The web site Catholic Culture, is a reactionary traditionalist element that would have us all back in the ghetto.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
tomais

Interesting;I gave up on my sub over a year ago.They have tried to get me back; it is an expensive journal.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
garfield

I have bought the odd issue but it is quite expensive, I subscribe to the 'Catholic Times' which I thing is much better value
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
OsullivanB

The Tablet costs about £2 a week by direct debit. I no longer smoke or drink, but believe that to be less than the cost of a pint of beer or a glass of wine in most places and about the same as six cigarettes. I still drive. £2 gets me about one and a half litres of petrol. The Tablet seems excellent value to me.

I no longer buy the Herald, Times or Universe. Most of the content of all three seems to me to be advertising or "filler" content. Each to his own.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
OsullivanB

CatholicCulture.org

Who are these self-appointed guardians of the faith? Their website is not at all clear about this.

I see that they commend TAN (though with one reservation!). That may be all some need to know about their approach.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gerard

The article from the Tablet, below, is one of the "evidences against them:

Quote:
 
Progress on Liturgy -- at a Cost

But while the breakthrough is good news, the new consensus has been achieved at the price of an end to the post-Vatican II approach to liturgical translation. That approach, known as “dynamic equivalence”, stressed inculturation and inclusivity. Soon after he was appointed as ICEL executive secretary, Fr Bruce Harbert – a patristics Latin scholar rather than a trained liturgist – told this paper that he wanted to see a more “elevated” and “sacral” translation which “moves the reader towards the original rather than the original towards the reader”. One consequence would be to render the Latin homines as “man” or “men” rather than to take the more gender-inclusive options which are now preferred by the media and contemporary linguistic scholarship. No one doubts that liturgical language must be appropriately formal, but the thinking behind the Vatican congregation’s 2001 document Liturgiam Authenticam suggests a special sacral language which can seem remote and oratorical. ICEL and the Congregation for Divine Worship may now agree on the need for this; but the risk is that the result will bypass or alienate Catholics in the English-speaking world at a time when lay involvement in liturgy is more than ever necessary.

There is a further danger. The new translations will almost certainly make Catholic English liturgical translations more and more unlike those used in other Churches. The close similarity of the Nicene Creed and other liturgical prayers currently used by Catholics and Anglicans in Britain and the United States eases ecumenical celebrations and common worship. But current curial thinking, especially in the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, is that liturgical language should be self-consciously Catholic, emphasising differences with non-Catholic traditions. This sends a quite different message from that which the Church has proclaimed since the Second Vatican Council


I may now buy a subscription.


Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Angus Toanimo
Member Avatar
Administrator
OsullivanB
Wednesday, 26. October 2011, 10:17
CatholicCulture.org

Who are these self-appointed guardians of the faith? Their website is not at all clear about this.

I see that they commend TAN (though with one reservation!). That may be all some need to know about their approach.
http://www.catholicculture.org/about/mission/

They're not affiliated in any way with any Trad organisation. I'm guessing they're a group of Conservative Catholics. Why not recommend TAN? Why does their recommendation of TAN suddenly tarnish their reputation, as if a recommendation of TAN is a bad thing? Would you subject the Rorate Caeli blog for their endorsement of Magnificat Dominum whose major organiser is an SSPX Father, and has been prefaced by Cardinal Canizares?
Posted Image
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
OsullivanB

Patrick
Wednesday, 26. October 2011, 11:46
OsullivanB
Wednesday, 26. October 2011, 10:17
CatholicCulture.org

Who are these self-appointed guardians of the faith? Their website is not at all clear about this.

I see that they commend TAN (though with one reservation!). That may be all some need to know about their approach.
http://www.catholicculture.org/about/mission/

They're not affiliated in any way with any Trad organisation. I'm guessing they're a group of Conservative Catholics. Why not recommend TAN? Why does their recommendation of TAN suddenly tarnish their reputation, as if a recommendation of TAN is a bad thing? Would you subject the Rorate Caeli blog for their endorsement of Magnificat Dominum whose major organiser is an SSPX Father, and has been prefaced by Cardinal Canizares?
It was reading this book that led me to doubt TAN.

https://www.tanbooks.com/index.php/AA-1025
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
OsullivanB

Patrick
 
I'm guessing they're a group of Conservative Catholics.
So we can agree that we do not know who they are or what their qualifications are for making any judgement about anything. They confirm your prior judgement and conflict with mine. I don't find myself any better informed for working that out.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · General Catholic Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply