Quote:

 

Another thing that I have wondered is how we have progressed from severe and penitential lifestyle to making Lenten resolutions such as "spending more time in the garden" or "eating more fruit"...these are things I have read, not made up. I suspect we have lost much of the true Lenten spirit since Vatican II.

Derekap

Wednesday, 4. March 2009, 17:05

When I was a boy I did sleep with the bedroom open until one morning the eiderdown was covered with melted snow. (I was hot in those days, not cool). In any case surely if you are trying to heat the house economically and environmently it would be wrong to have the windows open in cold weather.

Mrs.Pogle

Friday, 27. February 2009, 14:52

Quote:

 

Another thing that I have wondered is how we have progressed from severe and penitential lifestyle to making Lenten resolutions such as "spending more time in the garden" or "eating more fruit"...these are things I have read, not made up. I suspect we have lost much of the true Lenten spirit since Vatican II.[/small]

Have you actually met anbody who makes Lenten resolutions such as "spending more time in the garden" or "eating more fruit"? I haven't, and I have never seen any indication that Catholics treat Lent differently now from the way we did before the Second Vatican Council. Some people go to Mass more often, some give up a treat, some give more alms to the poor and sick.

This article explains better than I can what I was trying to say very clumsily

Quote:

 

LENT - A Season of Penance by Fr. William K. Delaney, S.J.

Many of us remember the days before Vatican II when penance was an ordinary part of the Church life. Friday was a day of abstinence from meat throughout the year, and the entire period of Lent was a strictly observed time of fasting. Now only Ash Wednesday and Good Friday remain fast days for the whole Church, and abstinence from meat is required only for the Fridays in Lent.Though the regulations concerning penance have changed, this does not mean that the Christian no longer is obliged to do penance. Rather, the Church desires that the people of God now take the initiative in responding to theLord’s call to penance. The disciples of John asked Jesus about His own disciples’ practice of penance.“When Jesus had crossed over to the territory of the Gerasenes, John’sdisciples came to him with the objection, ‘Why is it that while we and the Pharisees fast, your disciple do not?’ Jesus said to them: ‘How can wedding guests go in mourning so long as the groom is with them? When the day comes that the groom is taken away, then they will fast.’” (Mt.9:14-15) Jesus clearly indicated that there is a time for fasting and a time for feasting. In the Church’s liturgical year the great time of celebration is the Easter season,as we share in Christ’s triumph over death. Lent is the principal time for fasting, as we recall and share in the labor and sacrifice our salvation cost the Lord.

Ignatius of Loyola, in his Spiritual Exercises, gives three reasons why we do penance. The first reason is to make some satisfaction for past sins. They can be our own sins, as is the case when we do our penance assigned in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. They can be the sins of our nation. We do this for example, when we set aside a day of prayer and fasting in reparation for the sins of abortion committed in our Country. The sins can also be those of other individuals and groups upon whom we wish to call down God’s mercy. Ignatius’ second reason is to overcome and conquer the sinful tendencies in ourselves and lessen our self-centeredness. In this case, the penance is most effective if it is tailored to the sinful tendencies we are trying to conquer. The tradition of the Church has long recommended bodily penances, such as fasting, for sins of the flesh. This includes self-indulgence and lack ofdiscipline in a wide variety of contexts. A few of the many possible areas would be sex, eating, drinking, laziness, and venting anger. On the other hand, if our sinful tendency is more in the area of greed and lack of generosity then almsgiving-giving of our time, attention or material resources-would be more appropriate penitential practice. Ignatius’ third reason for penance is to strengthen our prayer if we are seeking a particular grace from God. Often our prayer is half-hearted. Our desire for God’s grace can be rather minimal - if we don’t receive it, it doesn’t really matter. When we put our body behind our prayer through fasting or some other appropriate penance we say, both to ourselves and to the Lord, that we are serious about our prayer. Whole-heartedness in our prayer opens us to receive the gifts God wants to give us.

It is important to realize that fasting and other penitential practice are not for our glory. We don’t fast to prove that we are spiritual and holy people.We fast, rather, because we are weak and sinful and in need of God’s mercy. I have found it helpful to seek the Lord in prayer for His guidance when considering what sort of Lenten penance I will do or whenever else I wish to do penance. Often the penance I finally choose, when I do choose one, is much easier than the one I had in mind previously, but it is also exactly what I need. As we approach Lent the prophet Isaiah (Is. 58) reminds us that the call to penance is a call to conversion of heart. Penance is the means we use, not the goal. When we come before the Lord to do penance, He does not ask us how difficult our penance will be. Rather, He asks us whether we are repentant, expressing our repentance with deeds reflecting a conversion of heart. It is this call to conversion of heart that we hear during Lent. Penance is simply a road to it. Let us walk the road with the goal clearly before our eyes. In this way we will be ready to meet the Lord at Easter.

Gerard

Wednesday, 4. March 2009, 20:43

Mrs p

I think I could have used that quote you have just posted to back up the arguments I was putting forward myself.

However, we did reach some sort of agreement before and I would ask whether you agree that anything more severe than those mild exampes should only be undertaken in consutation with a good spiritual director?

Gerry