| We hope you enjoy your visit! You're currently viewing Catholic CyberForum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our online cyberparish, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of abuse, personal attacks, blasphemy, racism, threats, harrassment, and crude or sexually-explicit language. If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Catholic History in Britain; how does it affect today? | |
|---|---|
| Topic Started: Thursday, 29. January 2009, 02:05 (666 Views) | |
| Rose of York | Wednesday, 29. April 2009, 00:17 Post #31 |
![]()
Administrator
|
Here is another interesting snippet of Catholic history in Britain. I bet few members of this forum know that the dear departed Cardinal John Carmel Heenan, Archbishop of Westminster, used to carry people out of burning buildings when was an Air Raid Patrol warden during the London blitz. Another snippet - when he was at Leeds, we all knew who owned the push bike that was chained to the Cathedral railings - Bishop Heenan! He used to cycle a few miles to his office, and always spared a moment for school pupils waiting at tram stops. Yes, I went to school on a tram. Has anybody else here been blessed by a bishop on a bike? |
|
Keep the Faith! | |
![]() |
|
| william of bow | Friday, 1. May 2009, 10:02 Post #32 |
|
The Catholic faith never died away during the persecution days; sometimes it had to go deep underground, and the faithful sometimes went for literally years without a Mass. Rose and some other posters on this thread may give the impression that the Irish Immigrants brought (back) the Catholic faith to these shores in the 18th and 19th century. This is not so. Cumberland, Northumberland, Durham, Lancaster, Yorkshire, Cheshire, north Wales, the West country. What do these areas all have in common? Well, during the (English) Civil War these areas consistently and loyally supported the King. And why? Because these were areras of especially strong Catholic belief. And King Charles, if not actually a Catholic himself, had a Queen who was, and he was not minded to persecute the Catholics as his father had. We are only now beginning to revise our view of the so called 'Protestant Ascendancy' under the Tudors. My own, favourite story is of Mary - often called ''' by some protestant historians. In fact, compared to her half-sister Elizabeth Mary had a pretty low 'kill rate' where the so called Protestant martyrs are concerned. Mary was actually a favourite of the London mob, ever an important weather vein of things political back then. Why? Because she publically disrespected her brother Edward's ban on, among other things the Missal and the Rosary. Now he was a real anti-catholic fanatic and thank God he died so young. When Mary ascended to the throne she was mobbed by the London crowds. Statues of Our Lady were taken out of hiding places and processed in the streets in honour not just of Our Lady but also of that other Mary. It was her politics, particularly her bad decision regarding an alliance with Spain that did for her with the ruling elite. Not her faith per se. Elizabeth was a complex thinker about her faith. I believe that Elizabeth actually really did believe in the real presence of Christ on the Altar after Transubstantiation. Certainly she had some lively debates with various protestant 'divines' on this matter. Yet, politically she was a through-and-through protestant.Although, again it might be more correct to say of Elizabeth that she was the first thoroughly nationalist English Queen. William Edited by william of bow, Friday, 1. May 2009, 10:04.
|
William of Bow[G.K.Chesterton] Check my Blog: http://www.williamonthehill.typepad.co.uk | |
![]() |
|
| Rose of York | Friday, 1. May 2009, 11:09 Post #33 |
![]()
Administrator
|
William you touched a raw nerve. I am descended from Irish immigrants, but thanks to my parents, teachers, priests and nuns I have always been aware that thanks to the recusants, the Catholic faith was kept alive in England. My avatar is the white rose, emblem of Yorkshire, the county of my birth. 61 Yorkshiremen and women died for the preservation of the Catholic faith. Most Yorkshire Catholics are descended from Irish immigrants, but we take tremendous pride in "our" recusants. See page 2 of this thread, with my references to Tyburn and Chideock, Dorset. Click the links, there is plenty there about recusants in Yorkshire and other counties. My postings on page 1 are about the prejudice experienced by Irish immigrants. The Irish immigrants dug deep in their pockets to build the Victorian churches. The recusants gave land, and added beautiful embelishments, such as stained glass, statues and fine altars fit for the sacrifice of the Mass. Here is a little list of snippets from my postings:
I have held in my hands the stole and breviary that belonged to Father Nicholas Postgate, martyr of the moors, visited St Margaret Clitherow's home and the Bar Convent, and Launceston Castle, where Cuthbert Mayne was executed. : |
|
Keep the Faith! | |
![]() |
|
| SeanJ | Friday, 1. May 2009, 14:02 Post #34 |
|
Administrator
|
Silly me. I thought it was a daisy. Sean |
![]() |
|
| Rose of York | Friday, 1. May 2009, 15:27 Post #35 |
![]()
Administrator
|
I had quite a rant in my earlier posting, and now feel the need to explain.
My postings about the early Irish immigrants were made, to explain how attitudes towards Catholics have changed over a period of about 150 years. Their arrival coincided, more or less, with the Catholic Emancipation Act. As an Englishwoman I feel great pride in our recusants. As an Irish blooded woman I have an attachment to the saints of Ireland. |
|
Keep the Faith! | |
![]() |
|
| Rose of York | Friday, 1. May 2009, 15:29 Post #36 |
![]()
Administrator
|
Cheeky monkey, that's my Rosa Alba Semi Plena. There's a beauty in my back garden. |
|
Keep the Faith! | |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Friday, 1. May 2009, 15:39 Post #37 |
|
Deleted User
|
Isn't there a seting to that by Talis or was it Palastrina Rosa Alba Semi Plena
|
|
|
| Joe Valente | Friday, 1. May 2009, 15:57 Post #38 |
|
A mere Bishop ! Cardinal Tomas O'Fiach was to seen regularly cycling around Armagh. That tops a bishop. The Archbishop of Bamberg (Germany) can be seen jogging around the town (5.00am - 6.00am) in his tracksuit any morning that he is in residence. Yes I know that he became Cardinal Heenan, but he did not cycle around London
|
| What doth it profit a man if he gains the whole world but suffers the loss of his soul | |
![]() |
|
| william of bow | Friday, 1. May 2009, 17:54 Post #39 |
|
O dear, 'twas not my intention to get into a fight. I am myself the son of an Irish woman. I am very aware of the contribution that generations of Irish have made to the Catholic faith in these lands.I just felt that this discussion was going down the "there would be no catholic church in England if it wasn't for the Irish" line of arguement. It is a very strong myth among many non Catholics that the Reformation - King Henry 8 and Elizabeth 1st - did for catholicism in England and that, yes indeed if it wasn't for the Irish migrants (and this is always said as a negative thing) the catholic church would have stayed dead. The myth continues that there was a day when everyone in Elizabeth's England woke up and decided all to be Protestant. In fact, as Professor Duffy has informed us (Stripping of the Altars - Morebattle) such a day never came. Many English people clung very strongly to their catholic faith and practices. For the sake of an easy life they just kept silent and went underground. The reformation and it's effects 'on the ground' was far, far more complex than most histories would have us believe. Mea Culpa if I have offended William |
William of Bow[G.K.Chesterton] Check my Blog: http://www.williamonthehill.typepad.co.uk | |
![]() |
|
| Rose of York | Friday, 1. May 2009, 18:15 Post #40 |
![]()
Administrator
|
No, William, I am not offended, that is why I posted addendum to rant. Pax Christi The Peace of Christ |
|
Keep the Faith! | |
![]() |
|
| SeanJ | Friday, 1. May 2009, 19:40 Post #41 |
|
Administrator
|
Once more into the breach dear friends. Have you read The Autobiography of an Elizabethan by John Gerard? This is the autobiography of an Elizabethan Jesuit (from Lancashire of course), who was imprisoned in the tower of London and escaped. Full of narrow escapes and priests' hiding holes. See the Catholic Reading List for more exciting reading. Sean |
![]() |
|
| Rose of York | Friday, 1. May 2009, 21:26 Post #42 |
![]()
Administrator
|
Sean is that the book that was based upon the handwritten diary of a martyr? |
|
Keep the Faith! | |
![]() |
|
| SeanJ | Friday, 1. May 2009, 21:30 Post #43 |
|
Administrator
|
I presume he wrote it by hand, but he escaped from England, and then lived on the continent. So he was not a martyr. He wrote it in Latin by the way, and it was translated by a priest at Stonyhurst. Sean |
![]() |
|
| pete | Friday, 1. May 2009, 23:14 Post #44 |
|
I purchased two DVD’s last week from Mary’s Dowry Productions, One was Saint Edmund Campion (A Hero Returns) The other was “The Martyrs Walk” through the streets of London, beginning at Tower Hill and ending at Tyburn convent. |
![]() |
|
| K.T.B. | Saturday, 2. May 2009, 20:08 Post #45 |
|
When I was growing up my father, a teacher who was very keen and knowledgable about history, used to take all of us for days out to historical sites...castles, Roman ruins and the like. Me and my sibs used to enjoy them; fresh air , picnics etc and because Dad was so knowledgeable he'd describe life and events at the sites to us and bring them to life. I still have a fascination for history to this day as a consequence. Included were visits to remnants of England's Catholic past: pre-Reformation churches and cathedrals, ruined monastaries. We always had to be quiet and respectful in the churches, but we didn't pray. We were quietly shown how the churches had been desecrated, the spaces where all the beautiful statues of the saints and angels had been knocked out or where they had been defaced, the old holy water stoups, the stone vessels on the wall where the priest would wash his hands during Mass (forget the technical name for the latter). We would be shown any remnants of frescoes behind the white wash, and of old stained glass windows. We knew how richly decorated the churches used to be,they were created for the glory of God and that all pre-Reformation churches were once Catholic. Although it was unsaid I picked up the feeling that they should have remained so. We were told that there were to that day some families who never converted to protestantism although many others were forced to do so. The politics behind the Reformation was not explained, nor the suffering and courage of the martyrs in any detail, I think we were too young, (Dad died when I was 13), although Elizabeth the First was never spoken of very favourably. I'm quite grateful for the insight he gave us. Much of the history of the period we used to learn at school ( I believe it's taught from different angles now), "Good Queen Bess" contrasted with "B***** Mary" ( the editing facility won't let me put the name Mary 1st is described as!) etc., is really just Tudor propaganda. |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Archived Discussions · Next Topic » |





Rosa Alba
O dear, 'twas not my intention to get into a fight. I am myself the son of an Irish woman. I am very aware of the contribution that generations of Irish have made to the Catholic faith in these lands.
9:19 AM Jul 11