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| Catholic History in Britain; how does it affect today? | |
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| Topic Started: Thursday, 29. January 2009, 02:05 (665 Views) | |
| JRJ | Thursday, 29. January 2009, 02:05 Post #1 |
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I have been wondering what it is like to be Catholic in Britain. The history of the Church has such crucial moments in your nations, and there are so many centuries of your history that have shaped today's Catholic experience. So many martyrs! I have become very interested in how differently religion is experienced in other nations and cultures. Here in America we have such a short history of the Church's presence. Is it difficult to be Catholic in Britain? Not? How have your ancestors described earlier times as Catholics? How do you see the history of the Church in Britain affecting you today? |
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| Rose of York | Thursday, 29. January 2009, 15:54 Post #2 |
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During my childhood in the immediate post war years, most Catholics in the Northern industrial towns lived in close knit communities, Two historical events led up to this. The industrial revolution and new inventions led to the building of great textile mills to house the newly invented machinery for mass production. Some mills were half a mile long. Huge coal mines were being opened up, to power industry. Canals were being dug, and railways built, to carry the coal and transport manufactured goods to the docks and throughout Britain. For over a hundred years, England faced an influx of immigrants from Ireland. We must bear in mind that in those days few people ever met anyone who had been born fifty miles away, let alone across the sea. The world's woollen cloth production was centred in the West Riding of Yorkshire. If you look at a map, find the cities of Leeds and Bradford, in the Nortrh of England. Those cities and the surrounding towns were the West Riding. Swathes of glorious countryside were marred by the new industrial landscape. The Irish immigrants were ready and willing to learn new skills to feed their families. There was a shortage of labour. The industrialist who built little houses around his premises, got the workers. That explains why the Irish immigrants tended to be huddled together, in the centre of the towns. Where the Irish Catholics lived the church was built. I have a history of my home town. It contains newspaper reports of epidemics, during the early and mid Victorian era. Reports would say that the disease began in the hovels occupied by "the Irish". Of course diseases began there, those houses had no toilets, some streets had no drainage, in some streets each house had a sink and a cold water tap, in a few streets the women would go out with buckets to the one communal tap, not very good if a coal miner was in need of his bath! Parents and children would share one living room and one bedroom. Some had a bedroom in the corner, on the ground floor, for a grandparent. Some of those houses were still standing in my lifetime, many were only about 12 feet square. The industrialists needed workers, of which there was a good supply, from Ireland. The employer who built houses round his mill, got the workers. Those Irish people brought a foreign language to England. They worshiped in Latin! They had nuns, who wore long black habits! Inside their churches they had statues of Mary, the Mothe of Jesus, and of Saint Patrick, and other saints. That was considered to be idolatrous. We had a reputation for "worshipping Mary". Our priest walked through the streets carrying ornate monstrances! That was indeed foreign to the indigenous English. The Irish looked upon their priest as though he was some kind of superior being! Well, in addition to being their spiritual father, he dealt with their welfare. It was he who kept an eye on children who had no shoes, he would arrange for a better off family to pass their childrens' shoes on to the poorer people, and the nuns would deliver parcels of clothes to families in need. The priest in my town fought for proper drainage in the worst areas, HIS family were suffering, many of them could not read or write, they could not be expected to liaise with the authorities. Society changed. A new beautiful building was erected, it was the finest church in town, and poor people had paid for it. Because of the poverty, few Irish people went on to further education, so the poverty was rife until, I would say, the nineteen fifties. The foreigners were despised. They were poor. Most had left school at the age of twelve. The Irish person who had been to grammar school was a rare breed. Irish meant Catholic. Catholic meant Irish - even if a Catholic was born here! My parents were born in England, to Irish immigrants. Some people said I was an Irish Catholic. Things have changed. I never experience resentment of my Catholicism, we are treated just the same an Methodists, Church of England, or other Christians. A little aside - my grandfathers worked in the steelworks at Middlesbrough, in the North Riding of Yorkshire. They and my uncles were involved in producing the steel for some of the finest bridges in the world, including the Golden Gate, San Frisco and Sydney Harbour bridge. Most of the men who worked on the production of those bridges were Irish Catholics. |
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| Rose of York | Thursday, 29. January 2009, 16:17 Post #3 |
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Some time in the second half of the nineteenth century a priest in the town of Huddersfield heard that a Catholic family had arrived in the town of Dewsbury. The priest saddled a horse and rode about ten miles to find them. He asked around, for the Irish family, found them, and baptised their baby. A few more Irish families arrived. Mass was offered in a little room over a shop. In the next town, they used a room above a warehouse. By the end of the nineteenth century Mass attendance in those two towns was about five thousand, in fine churches. The old way was to build, first a school, then a parish hall and finally a church. The idea was, money was needed for a church, and a school with three classrooms and some outside toilets would cost less than a church, but it could be used for fund raising events such as dances, and jumble sales of second hand clothing and pots and pans. As soon as there was enough money, a hall would be built. That would have a dual purpose - Mass on Sunday, and social events, and gatherings of parish societies. Garden parties, summer galas, Christmas dinners and the statutory Saint Patricks dances raised money for a church. Click here, see the church where I was baptised, it is totally unspoilt. http://www.stmarybatley.co.uk/high%20altar.html The shell was paid for by contributions from the congregation. The altar and stained glass were provided by a recusant family who had kept the Catholic faith throughout the days when Catholicism was outlawed. The altar rails are the parish war memorial. In the fifties we raised money for the mosaics, specially commissioned, from Florence, as a memorial to a priest who had served the parish for 56 years from ordination to death. After the Second World War, the old slum houses were demolished. Government money was poured into a massive house building programme. I personally knew fine families who lived in appalling condiitons, because there were few decent houses in town. The new houses had bathrooms, gardens, sheds, and sufficient bedrooms for a family. Wages were improving. Government agreed upon a subsidy towards the building of new Catholic schools. Originally it was only 10%, later raised to 25%. I think it is now 90%. In our area we managed to build new schools to educate youngsters from the age of 5 to 18. Those who passed the examination at 11+ went to the grammar schools in the cities. A new parish priest, a wealthy Englishman, arrived in the fifites. He had inherited a half share in his parents grocery chain, and he gave generously to the parish and to Bishop Heenan's fund for the building of new churches and schools throughout the diocese. That priest set about forging links with the local community. At the same time we had a Catholic mayor. The following year the local paper headline was "Town to have another Catholic mayor." Nowadays that would pass without comment. Those three men, the two mayors and our priest, showed a new face of Catholicism, the local people got the message - we were British, we belonged! There are many Irish names on the parish war memorial, let none say the Irishmen did not serve this country. Catholics became fully integrated, we had them on town councils, in Parliament, and generally working where they chose, no longer restricted to the mills around which the old slum housing had been built. To this day, in Yorkshire, Marian devotions and Eucharistic devotions are an important aspect of Catholic life. Sadly the presbyteries built for three or four priests now house just one. There are few nuns. We were practically breast bed on tales of the English martyrs. On the hundredth anniversary of Catholic Emancipation, thousands gathered for an open air Mass at Kirkstall Abbey, we knelt on the grass, no standing and worrying about damp knees! Catholics were demonstrating their faith. It grieves me that so many people turn their backs on their fine Catholic heritage. Could it be that they are unaware of the sacrifices made, so they can have Mass and the sacraments? Please God, the great day will come when the Norman parish churches and pre Reformation cathedrals will once again be in Catholic hands. That day will come. |
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| Mairtin | Thursday, 29. January 2009, 18:47 Post #4 |
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Yet you still have the Act of Settlement, which excludes Catholics from the monarchy and requires members of the royal family to relinquish their succession rights if they even marry a Catholic without actually converting. Why on earth is a bigoted piece of legislation like that still tolerated? Also, are there still restrictions on a Catholic becoming Prime Minister ? I got the impression that Blair decide to wait until he retired before he converted to avoid "complications." |
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| Gerard | Thursday, 29. January 2009, 19:48 Post #5 |
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JRJ Britain is actually four countries (and possibly more). Scotland, Ireland, Wales and another one. Oh yes, England. Each of these has distinct regions. Each has a very different oth and South and mostly a different middle as well. I grew up in central Scotland with a history of bigotry, haterd and violence (mostly non-lethal) between catholics and protestants (presbyterian). I now live in Southern England where there is very little bigotry and only a little discomfort between catholics and protestants (anglican). In living memory catholics were grossly discriminated against and could not get far in business or the professions. Now thats gone and catholics and protestants and non-denominationals face the same more subtle discrimination from the secular society we now are. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Angus Toanimo | Thursday, 29. January 2009, 20:07 Post #6 |
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It is tolerated because it suits the British Establishment. The two-faced monarch signs legislation designed to make criminals out of the rest of us (Religious Hatred Law) yet condones the most bigoted single piece of religious hatred ever to have been passed by parliament since the Reformation. |
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| Deleted User | Thursday, 29. January 2009, 20:07 Post #7 |
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I think in England Scotland and Wales it is pretty easy being a Catholic these days. I grew up in west central Scotland abd Gerard has described the atmosphere there in those days. That still exists but in a very much watered down version and most people get on with their lives and their neighbours with no problem. Catholics often hold key Government and business positions I live in South Wales and although in the 19th and early 20th century there was some antagonism there is absolutely no sign of it now. I mean no sign whatsoever. Neighbours and work colleagues show no interest at all in each other's religion and being a Catholic is no bar at all to advancement. John |
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| Angus Toanimo | Thursday, 29. January 2009, 20:08 Post #8 |
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Ireland is not in Britain. You only have two-thirds of one county out of 32. Keep it. |
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| Gerard | Thursday, 29. January 2009, 20:14 Post #9 |
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I was being provacative Patrick. But is there a word or phrase that would describe England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland ? Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Deleted User | Thursday, 29. January 2009, 20:19 Post #10 |
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Gerry Perhaps windswept? John |
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| Angus Toanimo | Thursday, 29. January 2009, 20:22 Post #11 |
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Four Nations
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| Rose of York | Thursday, 29. January 2009, 20:50 Post #12 |
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The British Isles. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Gerard | Thursday, 29. January 2009, 21:30 Post #13 |
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Patrick ? British Isles ? |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Angus Toanimo | Thursday, 29. January 2009, 21:30 Post #14 |
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Ireland is not a British Isle.
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| Angus Toanimo | Thursday, 29. January 2009, 21:30 Post #15 |
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Noooooo!
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