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Church choirs; Music at Mass
Topic Started: Wednesday, 14. January 2009, 16:30 (662 Views)
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I agree Carlo :violin:

I used to play untill my friends asked me to give it up.
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Rose of York
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Fortunatus
Wednesday, 20. May 2009, 18:07
Sorry, guys. The Catholic Church doesn't do "varying tastes" or "different ways for different people". We've had this argument before. How is a priest supposed to celebrate Mass in 250 "different ways" and supply 250 different hymns for 250 "varying tastes" all at the same time. Liturgy is not about us; it's about God.
OK. lets just get all priests to cater for your taste and CARLO's because what does not appeal to either of you is rubbish.

:rofl:
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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CARLO
Friday, 22. May 2009, 21:42
There may be a variation of tastes but there is also good taste and bad taste!

Weeping deer, lighting fires and reworked Cat Stevens or Bob Dylan lyrics come into the bad taste category along with the out of tune guitars, wailing recorders and screeching first term violin students that are sent to torment us from time to time.
We really must put a stop to small communities doing their best. My dear, they just cannot keep up with the standards of the Oratorians. It really is a dreadful situation. I know of one church that by pure luck has a decent organist but, oh dearie me, they have only one tenor, and one reasonable soprano, not one respectable bass singer in the whole congregation. It is high time they were ordered to just keep quiet, for the sake of visitors who are accustomed to higher standards. They think they are praising God, I wonder what God thinks about it? We could sell all those little churches, spend the proceeds on a fleet of coaches and bus those people in to decent churches where they have good, highly trained choirs.

;)

Keep the Faith!

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Deleted User
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:musicnote: :harp: :juggle: :musicnote: :highland: :juggle: :violin: :juggle: :choir: :juggle: :trumpet: :juggle: :prayhands:

I was told as a newly ordained priest that there were a few basic rules.
1) Never upset the Parish priest
2) Never upset the Choir mistress
3) Never upset the organist
4) Never upset the flower arrangers
5 NEVER UPSET THE HOUSEKEEPER
6 Don't even think about looking to the Parish priest for support if I break any of the above rules.

As a parish priest rules 2 - 5 still applied untill I sacked the Houskeeper and thus broke rules 2-4.

I have been juggling these rules ever since.

:juggle:
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Derekap
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You forgot Number 7 (Surely it should be Number 1)

Never upset the ladies with the green cardigans!


Surely, however, the newly ordained priests can only upset themselves as very few parishes can have an assistant priest? They must get lightning promotion these days!
Gone are the days when they were lucky (or unlucky) to be promoted before they retired.
Derekap
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Fortunatus

Forgive the delay in getting back to you on my last posting. Problem with brain working faster than fingers is that you end up not explaining things very well.
We are in danger in getting away from the singing aspect of this thread back onto the "isn't it nice that Father is now allowed to do virtually anything he likes at Mass because that way he can 'cater for everybody'" syndrome which is not what we were discussing. My fault for rising to the bait.

But I stand by the original point. There are two forms of the Roman Rite and one of those can be celebrated with a certain amount of pomp or without. That is it! There is no such thing in Canon Law or anywhere else as a "family" Mass or a "children's" Mass or a "gay" Mass or a "clown" Mass or any other sort of Mass except The Mass.

Rose, you're getting peevish again. I certainly never suggested that because you don't happen to have the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra or the BBC Chorus in your parish that you should stop singing. What I would seriously recommend is that if you are going to sing you choose something that is within the compass of those who are going to sing and accompany it. I would have thought that was simple common sense.
And neither Carlo nor I have said anything about everything (or for that matter, anything) being done to suit our tastes (assuming you actually know what they are and they are the same for both of us). What we have said, both of us frequently and at length, is that we want is for things to be done the way the Church wants them done.
Hence, go and read Sacrosanctum Concilium and implement it. That is what the Fathers wanted and asked for and expected — poor simple souls that they were.
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Rose of York
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Fortunatus
Saturday, 23. May 2009, 19:18
Rose, you're getting peevish again. I certainly never suggested that because you don't happen to have the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra or the BBC Chorus in your parish that you should stop singing. What I would seriously recommend is that if you are going to sing you choose something that is within the compass of those who are going to sing and accompany it. I would have thought that was simple common sense.
Fortunatus I need to avoid good naturedly pullling your leg.

I find that the standard of singing in small churches in our area tends to be very good because local choirs are very popular. It does help if trained singers are present. If the organist is away, they can lead us. It works well.
Keep the Faith!

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Derekap
Saturday, 23. May 2009, 13:18
You forgot Number 7 (Surely it should be Number 1)

Never upset the ladies with the green cardigans!


Surely, however, the newly ordained priests can only upset themselves as very few parishes can have an assistant priest? They must get lightning promotion these days!
Gone are the days when they were lucky (or unlucky) to be promoted before they retired.
So true Derekap
I was fortunate to have a true inspiration as a PP when first ordained.


Fortunatus you make a sound point but alas to often people over estimate their abilities and consider themselves to be the Philharmonic choir when in reality they are the '****###' musical society who ought to come with ear plugs and a musical health warning. But bless them they are trying... you can work out the old joke for yourselves.
:wh:
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Derekap
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This morning our small choir and organist (all women, the men were absent today) chose a hymn to Our Lady. By the wording I would say it was an 'olde' but I don't think anyone else (including me) had ever heard of it before and the tune was not easy to pick-up. Anyway the choir had obviously rehearsed it well so we listened and followed the words.
Derekap
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Fortunatus

Rose. You? Stop pulling my leg? Heaven forfend.
You really must learn to take my finger-wagging with a pinch of salt. Also my mixed metaphors.
I wish we had a half-decent choir in our parish, I really do.
What we do have is ladies of a certain age, one of whom used to have a pretty good voice and sang for a local choral society and stirred the others into action. Unfortunately, as often happens with age, her voice is no longer what it was and the others never were.
But their hearts are in the right place and what would we do if we didn 't have them?
Answer: go back to singing the hymns we all knew and loved, that's what. And possibly dip our collective toes into a little bit of liturgical singing instead of the drear stuff that passes for "popular" hymns in certain circles.

Derek. I rest my case! I don't want to have to sit and listen to the choir — good, bad or (in our case) indifferent — "show off" how clever they are with tunes that are not easy for congregations to wrap their tonsils round. At least you had a hymn to Our Lady. But there are dozens of hymns to Our Lady that most parishioners in most parishes know — Hail, Queen of Heaven; Bring Flowers of the Fairest (yes, I know it's pretty trite); Daily, daily; O Mother Blest. There's one each for the Sundays of May (assuming that next Sunday we'll need a hymn to the Holy Spirit).
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CARLO
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Fortunatus
Sunday, 24. May 2009, 18:14
...........At least you had a hymn to Our Lady. But there are dozens of hymns to Our Lady that most parishioners in most parishes know — Hail, Queen of Heaven; Bring Flowers of the Fairest (yes, I know it's pretty trite); Daily, daily; O Mother Blest. There's one each for the Sundays of May (assuming that next Sunday we'll need a hymn to the Holy Spirit).
Sadly in many UK Parishes this is no longer true so ruthless has been the stamping out of traditional Catholic hymns in the last 40 years and their replacement by the 'cod-folk' ditties of the garish coloured paper 'hymnals' that have been in use now for many years.

'Hail Queen of Heaven' - This one still gets a look in from time to time although only when the Organist (NOT the Parish Priest) picks it.

'Bring Flowers of the Fairest' - not heard this sung for 40 years or so!

'Daily Daily' - never heard sung in 20 years in my Parish Church!

'O Mother Blest' - not heard in last 5 years or so but still pops up sometimes.

'O Purest of Creatures' - not heard sung in 20 years in my Parish Church!

'Protect us While Telling' - not heard this sung for 40 years or so!

'Lourdes Hymn' - Used to be sung once or twice a year but now replaced by something called 'The New Lourdes Hymn!'

De profundis
Out of the depths


CARLO
Judica me Deus
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