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Church choirs; Music at Mass
Topic Started: Wednesday, 14. January 2009, 16:30 (665 Views)
Gerard

CARLO
Thursday, 15. January 2009, 00:38
O for return of the traditional choir to sing or chant Mass for us whilst we concentrate on prayer.

Maybe one hymn at the end for the congregation - rest of hymns reserved for Benediction and other services.

Leave the congregational hymn singing to the Protestants who do it so much better!

Miserere nobis
Have mercy on us


CARLO

Carlo

Are you suggesting that St Augustine was a Protestant then ??

He who sings prays twice.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
CARLO
Thursday, 15. January 2009, 00:38
O for return of the traditional choir to sing or chant Mass for us whilst we concentrate on prayer.
CARLO
 
Things to beware of are:

* Choirs with agendas to 'take over' (Trad or 'Folk-Mass')


:wh:
S.A.G.

Motes 'n' Beams blog

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Derekap
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In the church we have attended for four and a half years it was left to two organists and a guitarist who took it in turns to choose and provide the music for the hymns. As the church is very crowded with benches and chairs (all regularly filled on Sunday mornings and well-filled on Saturday Evenings) and there is no balcony for a choir, the organ is just to the right of the Sanctuary and the guitarist also played very close it. About a year ago a small choir appeared and they huddle just to the right of the (electric) organ. The guitarist does not play any longer, probably because she now has three children to look after. We now have two regular organists with an occasional third, one of which is not a Catholic. They usually choose the hymns but the priest usually takes note of the numbers and just occasionally there is a change which I presume he has suggested. The choice is usually well-known and tends towards the more contemporary - that is includes many which were once rather frowned on because they were not Catholic. Our hymn books are very heavy and contain about a thousand items but we normally stick to the last third of he books. Now and again we have the Peruvian Gloria, we usually sing the Gospel Alleluia but the verse is recited and we also sing the Holy Holy at the end of the Preface. Occasionally we sing a Shalom during the Sign of Peace. The congregation join in the singing very whole-heartedly except if a new hymn is chosen and the melody is difficult to follow. I once in casual conversation outside mentioned that in my previous parish we often sang The Lord's Prayer but so far the hint has fallen on stoney gound. We rarely attend on Saturday Evenings so I don't know regularly what happens but on the occasions we went there were different organists but no choir.
Derekap
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tomais

Saint Patrick's Church in the Cowgate,Edinburgh, has two choirs; one specialising in latin pieces.
For the history of singing in Scotland,yes and the quantity and quality of such in far off days may be appreciated by logging onto " Jone Purser; recently had a 50 part series on Radio Scotland and prise book writer.
The early Church music is really an ear opener.
James McMillan,( assistant editor for the Scottish Catholic Observer),is one of the foremost muicologists in the UK9 but you will know that-been at the Proms more than once)- he energises Church music in all parishes.
The SCO,( as above) has Father Byrne write on music every week- he runs a latin choir in Glasgow.
Tom
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Bob Crowley

I don't see what's wrong with either a music group and / or a church choir, nor do I see a problem with a mix of music of modern and classical genre music and songs. The real difficulty is to get someone to take charge of it all, and promote the music ministry, organise regular practice, etc. My pipe dream would be a Christian music concert featuring an opening by Monks and Nuns singing plain chant, songs and music from different Christian traditions, including Christian rock and Gospel, with a joint mass / communion and sermon / homily part way through, and finishing up with a combined composition featuring elements of each genre (without overdoing it).

To be honest, in my experience, the Protestants put more effort into their music as far as I can see, which is not a good commentary on Catholic laziness in this area, since there are just as many gifted Catholic musicians and by the law of averages, there will be just as many good voices in the average Catholic congregation as there is in the average Protestant congregation.

But when I listen to some Catholics, I get the feeling that certain molehills of tradition turn into mountains of inertia sometimes.
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OsullivanB

Where the mountains of Mourneful sweep down out of key?
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Rose of York
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Bob Crowley
Friday, 16. January 2009, 12:38
To be honest, in my experience, the Protestants put more effort into their music as far as I can see, which is not a good commentary on Catholic laziness in this area, since there are just as many gifted Catholic musicians and by the law of averages, there will be just as many good voices in the average Catholic congregation as there is in the average Protestant congregation.

But when I listen to some Catholics, I get the feeling that certain molehills of tradition turn into mountains of inertia sometimes.
We Catholics have fine music in oratories and some of the cathedrals. Music tends to be neglected in our ordinary churches, where it is a hit and miss affair. If there is a good organist in the parish, the music might be very good indeed. Some parishes let people play, who have very little aptitude. It is better for singing to be led by one soloist or a small group than by a bad organist.

I would rather have well played music on a guitar or any other instrument that excruciating noises made on the organ, by a person who cannot play. The buzz word is involvement, and some say everybody has a "right to be involved" - even if they have an adverse effect on worship.
Keep the Faith!

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pete

Our singing group consists of 6 of us. I also belong to another choir below, you can listen to a sample of our music by clicking on this site.
http://www.geocities.com/policechoir/repertoire.htm
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Gerard

There is a strong catholic cuture of doing - nothing.

Probably started in the dim and distant past when we left everything to the priest. (something they themselves encouraged)

And the doing nothing included singing.

We dont sing - its something to be ashamed of not proud of.

(Rose leaving it to some "professional" oratory or even the church choir is just another way of doing - nothing)

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Emee
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I must be very blessed indeed then because our PP has told us on more than one occasion that our congregational signing has been "in fine form"...

We seem to just love to sing! Yay!

(CARLO don't get me wrong - I like the Mass chants too.)
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Rose of York
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Gerard
Saturday, 17. January 2009, 09:55
(Rose leaving it to some "professional" oratory or even the church choir is just another way of doing - nothing)

Yes, it is. In one church I used to walk home from Mass, having endured excruciating singing, and on the way home comment to my companion "the walls of that chapel must be shaking.." The methodists were, as ever, singing their hearts out. Generally in the field of music the non conformists put the Catholics to shame.



Keep the Faith!

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Bob Crowley

Rose of York
Saturday, 17. January 2009, 13:34
Gerard
Saturday, 17. January 2009, 09:55
(Rose leaving it to some "professional" oratory or even the church choir is just another way of doing - nothing)

Yes, it is. In one church I used to walk home from Mass, having endured excruciating singing, and on the way home comment to my companion "the walls of that chapel must be shaking.." The methodists were, as ever, singing their hearts out. Generally in the field of music the non conformists put the Catholics to shame.



It's not unsual for us to use CD"s for our music, since from time to time we have no musicians. The situation has improved markedly the last couple of years, but it does say something about the lakc of Catholic musicianship.

Only once did I experience a Protestant church without muso's and that was a small church with about 20 people. When they lost the organist / pianist, they had to wait a while to get another.
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Derekap
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Carlo wrote:

"O for return of the traditional choir to sing or chant Mass for us whilst we concentrate on prayer."

Is not singing or chanting the Holy Mass not prayer? It certainly shouldn't be background music or Muzak. If the organist is playing appropriate music quietly during the distribution of Holy Communion then we should be able to offer up our own prayers.

Derekap
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Gerard
Saturday, 17. January 2009, 09:55
We dont sing - its something to be ashamed of not proud of.
I sing! :musicnote:
S.A.G.

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pat
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we're very blessed at our church as we have two choirs - Schola Anselmi and Schola Caeciliana. The latter is a children's choir who sing at the 10 am Sunday Mass and on special feast days. They have recorded a CD of music called Nativitas. The former is made up of adults, and they sing at the 12 noon Mass which is in Latin. Both Masses normally use the Missa de Angelis setting, and the congregation is expected to join in, and also to sing the hymns (entrance and erm.. the one at the end).

Having St Caecilia as our co-patron, music is very important to us. At all Masses we sing the Allelulia, the Memorial Acclamation and the Amen.
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