+ Roche to be moved to Liverpool?

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+ Roche to be moved to Liverpool?; Apparently!
Topic Started: Friday, 9. January 2009, 01:59 (138 Views)
Timothy	Friday, 9. January 2009, 01:59 Post #1
Posts: 299 Group: Members Member #84 Joined: May 1, 2007	Holy Smoke - Will +Arthur skate from Leeds to Liverpool? Quote: A trusted source in northern Catholic circles tells me of speculation that Arthur Roche, the church-closing Bishop of Leeds, may succeed Patrick Kelly as Archbishop of Liverpool when the latter retires. "Apparently this is a consolation prize for being knocked out of the running for Westminster by the mishandling of church closures," says the source.
Posts: 299 Group: Members Member #84 Joined: May 1, 2007	"An adult faith does not follow the waves of fashion and the latest novelty." "Having a clear faith, according to the credo of the church, is often labelled as fundamentalism." Pope Benedict XVI


Patrick	Friday, 9. January 2009, 07:47 Post #2
Administrator Posts: 3,567 Group: Admin Member #1 Joined: September 25, 2006	Timothy Friday, 9. January 2009, 01:59 Holy Smoke - Will +Arthur skate from Leeds to Liverpool? Quote: A trusted source in northern Catholic circles tells me of speculation that Arthur Roche, the church-closing Bishop of Leeds, may succeed Patrick Kelly as Archbishop of Liverpool when the latter retires. "Apparently this is a consolation prize for being knocked out of the running for Westminster by the mishandling of church closures," says the source. Hmmm... If this true, I wonder if Fr Mark Lawler will get his faculties back?



SeanJ	Friday, 9. January 2009, 09:39 Post #3
Moderator Posts: 766 Group: Moderator Member #208 Joined: September 26, 2008	A trusted source says that there is speculation. Well that is probably true, there has always been speculation. BTW, who is Fr. Lawler?



Patrick	Friday, 9. January 2009, 09:55 Post #4
Administrator Posts: 3,567 Group: Admin Member #1 Joined: September 25, 2006	SeanJ Friday, 9. January 2009, 09:39 A trusted source says that there is speculation. Well that is probably true, there has always been speculation. BTW, who is Fr. Lawler? Allerton Bywater/Fr Mark Lawler thread



Mairtin	Friday, 9. January 2009, 10:09 Post #5
Posts: 1,061 Group: Members Member #206 Joined: August 16, 2008	Damian Thompson A trusted source ... tells me of speculation That has to be the funniest thing I've ever seen written unintentionally by a journalist, talk about scratching around for some kind of story .. any kind of story ....
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Gerard	Friday, 9. January 2009, 10:18 Post #6
Posts: 3,003 Group: Members Member #12 Joined: September 26, 2006	story or gossip ?
	"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).


Rose of York	Friday, 9. January 2009, 10:55 Post #7
Administrator Posts: 14,099 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	For some reason Damian Thompson has his knife in Bishop Roche. He makes unfair accusations: Trying to block off Mass in the Extraordinary Form Long before Summorum Pontificum, Bishop Roche instructed it was to be offered, weekly, in several locations. Closing churches without good cause Bishop Roche is doing his best in a difficult situation. Other dioceses have suffered more than Leeds, from church closures.
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Rose of York	Friday, 9. January 2009, 10:58 Post #8
Administrator Posts: 14,099 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	What a change it wouldl be, for an English Archdiocese to be led by an Archbishop who did not grow up in the cloisered atmosphere of a monastic boarding school. Only time will tell if there is truth in speculation revealed by a trusted source. Why trust people who spread gossip?
	$Posted Image$ Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards


Rose of York	Friday, 9. January 2009, 11:07 Post #9
Administrator Posts: 14,099 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	SeanJ Friday, 9. January 2009, 09:39 BTW, who is Fr. Lawler? In brief, he is a priest who got the sack, for persistently disobeying his bishop.
	$Posted Image$ Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards


Clare	Friday, 9. January 2009, 12:19 Post #10
Wacko Schismatic Traditionalist Woman Posts: 3,035 Group: Members Member #70 Joined: March 27, 2007	Rose of York Friday, 9. January 2009, 11:07 SeanJ Friday, 9. January 2009, 09:39 BTW, who is Fr. Lawler? In brief, he is a priest who got the sack, for persistently disobeying his bishop. It would make such a pleasant change for some dissenting priest to be disciplined by an English bishop. Never seems to happen though.
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Rose of York	Friday, 9. January 2009, 12:24 Post #11
Administrator Posts: 14,099 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	Link The Tablet Abbot denies he was offered job as Archbishop of Westminster 8 January 2009 A Benedictine abbot has told his community that there is no truth in reports that he turned down the post of Archbishop of Westminster. Abbot Hugh Gilbert of Pluscarden Abbey, near Elgin in Morayshire, gave his assurance to the congregation, which included his monks, at Mass on the feast of the Epiphany, that he had neither accepted nor rejected the post of Archbishop of Westminster for the simple reason that he had never been offered it. Last week a report published in newspapers and blogs claimed that Dom Hugh had been chosen by Pope Benedict XVI to be Archbishop of Westminster but had �declined the post at the last minute�. Abbot Hugh, who is 56, told The Tablet that the story �is pure fiction�. So much for rumour mongerers. It may or may not be true that BIshop Roche has been offered the Liverpool post.
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Rose of York	Friday, 9. January 2009, 13:05 Post #12
Administrator Posts: 14,099 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	SeanJ Friday, 9. January 2009, 09:39 BTW, who is Fr. Lawler? In brief, Father Lawler was a parish priest. All Masses, in Extraordinary and Ordinary Form, at his church in Allerton Bywater, a former mining village In Yorkshire were in Latin. Generally, on the internet, it was said the congregation were happy about that. Some say the congregation were mainly local residents, some say they were people who travelled from elsewhere. The closure was nothing to do with finance. Bishop Roche decided to cut down on the number of churches in the area. He provided a Latin Mass in the extraordinary form every Sunday at 3 pm at St. Josephs Castleford, which also has two in the ordinary form. There are two churches at Pontefract, five miles from Allerton Bywater, with Mass at 6pm (Vigil), 8.30 am, 9.45am, 11 am and 6.30 pm. In the two towns, there is a choice of three Masses on Holydays. In other dioceses, people living in rural areas have fared far worse. Many, myself included, have just one weekly Mass per week within ten or fifteen miles. Whilst I accept that it is heartbreaking for any community to be broken up, I cannot understand why Leeds is getting all the bullets, there are places in a worse predicament. I am pretty sure the Isle of Wight has no regular Mass. After Allerton Bywater was closed, Father Lawler opened up the church and said Mass, for a congregation, although the bishop had said it was not to be used. Father Lawler is now suspended, he is listed on the directory as living in his presbytery, but Bishop Roche told him he will not be offered another position in the diocese. There were complaints that the church had not received a bishop's visitation for ten years, It was a chapel of ease, and chapels of ease do not get visitations, we have a visitation to the parish, of which we are a part (my local church is a chapel of ease, but not in Leeds diocese). Quote: Just to be clear. I am a West Yorkshire Catholic whose Cities mother Church has been closed, and whose parish has been "merged". I am less than chuffed at some of the things Arthur R has done, as he is also closing the only Co-educational Catholic high school in the city, even though 85% of Catholic primary school parents in the city want Co-ed. The Fr Lawlor incident ( Priest who has not been given a parish after the debacle at his last one!) is not as simple as some on here, Damian included, would like it to be. Link Holy Smoke blog Bishop Roche comes in for all sorts of accusations, on the internet, from people who know nothing of the culture or geography of West Yorkshire. I lived there for forty years, know a lot about that diocese, but would not presume to know everything about what happens there NOW, I do know there is a limit to how many churches can feaibly be supported in a county with more muslims than practising Christians. That's it, I do not want to turn this into a discussion on Allerton Bywater, but it is relevant, I have simply given the facts as I see them. Clare Friday 11 January 2008 11.07 Rose of York Friday, 9. January 2009, 11:07 SeanJ Friday, 9. January 2009, 09:39 BTW, who is Fr. Lawler? In brief, he is a priest who got the sack, for persistently disobeying his bishop. It would make such a pleasant change for some dissenting priest to be disciplined by an English bishop. Never seems to happen though. Dissenting priest are disciplined. We don't hear about it because bishops do not make announcements when they withdraw authorisations to say Mass, preach and hear confessions. I know of two cases, one in a Northern diocese and one in the Midlands, but cannot provide proof because i know of no record of it in the media. It is a matter private to the priest and his bishop. Father Lawler chose to tell his parishioners.
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SeanJ	Friday, 9. January 2009, 14:11 Post #13
Moderator Posts: 766 Group: Moderator Member #208 Joined: September 26, 2008	Thank you Rose for fillling me in. Obviously, the Church has to respond to declining congregations. I know that in Eccles (west of Manchester) one can visit four Catholic churches in the course of a five mile circular walk. These churches used to have active congregations, but I don't know if that is still the case.



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