Latin is set to be returned to the school curricul

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Latin is set to be returned to the school curricul
Topic Started: Friday, 2. January 2009, 15:23 (566 Views)
KatyA	Friday, 2. January 2009, 15:23 Post #1
Administrator Posts: 5,404 Group: Admin Member #6 Joined: September 26, 2006	Telegraph Ministers believe it is an "important subject" and may help school pupils to learn modern languages. Less than 15 per cent of state schools teach Latin and the number of qualified teachers is falling. However, the Department for Education is understood to be considering adding Latin to the new Languages diploma, which will run alongside GCSEs and A-levels from next year. Baroness Morgan, the schools minister, has indicated that the Government wishes to see Latin regain its status as an important language. She said it was "an important subject and valuable for supporting pupils' learning of modern languages". She added that the Language Diploma Development Partnership was "considering the place of Latin". Well-placed sources said that the language was expected to be reinstated as an official curriculum language next year. Baroness Morgan made the comments in response to calls from another Labour peer, Lord Faulkner of Worcester who said it helped students to learn other languages. Telegraph Fr.Ray How can the Church in England and Wales show itself to be prophetic and help? Fr Ray Blake Which reminds me that now the holidays are almost finished,I'd better get on with my Latin homework Learning Latin KatyA



Patrick	Friday, 2. January 2009, 15:36 Post #2
Administrator Posts: 3,629 Group: Admin Member #1 Joined: September 25, 2006	Hmm... I learned Classical Latin at school but I'm not too up on the idea for it's return to the curriculum. Yes, it can help with learning other European languages but it's not really necessary. I'd like to see it reintroduced into Catholic schools, though. In answer to Fr Blake: It can't. The majority of the hierarchy at present would probably prefer if Latin was binned, and Summorum Pontificium with it.



CARLO	Friday, 2. January 2009, 16:36 Post #3
Posts: 1,687 Group: Members Member #27 Joined: September 28, 2006	I think the return of Latin as part of a general language diploma is excellent news. It has been 'brewing' for some time. For those languages with a Latin base (i.e. most of the second languages taught in UK schools) it is a very useful aide to learning. Gloria! CARLO Edited by CARLO, Friday, 2. January 2009, 16:36.
	Judica me Deus


Gerard	Friday, 2. January 2009, 16:45 Post #4
Posts: 3,103 Group: Members Member #12 Joined: September 26, 2006	KatyA Friday, 2. January 2009, 15:23 Fr.Ray How can the Church in England and Wales show itself to be prophetic and help? Fr Ray Blake How can we be prophetic - by speaking for God. Take a lesson from the C of E and the Archbishop of Canterbury. Did you see his new year message? Now, that was propecy. Moaning about personal preferences for ancient languages is not ! Gerry
	"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).


CARLO	Friday, 2. January 2009, 16:48 Post #5
Posts: 1,687 Group: Members Member #27 Joined: September 28, 2006	Gerard Friday, 2. January 2009, 16:45 KatyA Friday, 2. January 2009, 15:23 Fr.Ray How can the Church in England and Wales show itself to be prophetic and help? Fr Ray Blake How can we be prophetic - by speaking for God. Take a lesson from the C of E and the Archbishop of Canterbury. Did you see his new year message? Now, that was propecy. Moaning about personal preferences for ancient languages is not ! Gerry I didn't know Rowan was a prophet. As for the jibe about Latin it's too silly and outdated to respond to in any detail! Libera nos Deliver us CARLO
	Judica me Deus


Gerard	Friday, 2. January 2009, 16:53 Post #6
Posts: 3,103 Group: Members Member #12 Joined: September 26, 2006	Carlo, All baptised Christians are prophets. Sometimes we speak more prophetically than usual. The Archbish's new year message was one such occassion. Gerry
	"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).


PJD	Friday, 2. January 2009, 17:32 Post #7
Posts: 2,423 Group: Members Member #11 Joined: September 26, 2006	"I learned Classical Latin at school but I'm not too up on the idea for it's return to the curriculum. Yes, it can help with learning other European languages but it's not really necessary. I'd like to see it reintroduced into Catholic schools, though. " Yes, like Patrick I learned Latin at school. However the reason given was that, apart from being useful regarding Catholic matters, it had a logical structure and helped with maths; especially Algebra. As for other languages - you could chose either Latin or French. The French teacher went around with a slipper as a substitute for the cane; however the Latin teacher only used the marking discipline - and ruthlessly at that. I chose Latin. Some dunces chose French. Happy days! PJD



Derekap	Friday, 2. January 2009, 21:02 Post #8
Posts: 3,410 Group: Members Member #14 Joined: September 26, 2006	I was not considered clever enough to earn Latin or German (it was either/or not both) at the 11+ school. However what French I learned taught me to realise that, English excepted, languages had genders and the word orders in sentences were very different. This was a help when I taught myself some other languages (none fluent). I don't think Latin would have helped more from the experience of a few lessons in it. Our Latin Master was a proper Caesar strolling around in his academic gown as if it was a toga. Dare anyone run along the corridor outside his class and sometimes our art class next door was unable not to react when he was ranting and raving. The master disappeared in the store room sometimes after threatening to send us into his classroom
	Derekap


CARLO	Friday, 2. January 2009, 22:08 Post #9
Posts: 1,687 Group: Members Member #27 Joined: September 28, 2006	Derekap Friday, 2. January 2009, 21:02 .............Our Latin Master was a proper Caesar strolling around in his academic gown as if it was a toga. Dare anyone run along the corridor outside his class and sometimes our art class next door was unable not to react when he was ranting and raving. The master disappeared in the store room sometimes after threatening to send us into his classroom A very great teacher! There was no shilly shallying in those days! Cor unum et anima una With one heart and one soul CARLO Edited by CARLO, Monday, 9. November 2009, 21:36.
	Judica me Deus


John Sweeney	Friday, 2. January 2009, 23:57 Post #10
Posts: 1,841 Group: Members Member #68 Joined: March 20, 2007	Yes I agree that learning Latin is an excellent discipline and a good foundation for the Romance languages. John



KatyA	Monday, 9. November 2009, 00:19 Post #11
Administrator Posts: 5,404 Group: Admin Member #6 Joined: September 26, 2006	The Independent has picked up on this story again with several interesting articles Quote: In offering Latin to children in inner London and Oxford the Iris Project has found that one of its main effects was to help considerably with literacy. It fits neatly into Key Stage 2 learning for vocabulary and grammar. The first thing we did was show children Latin words that have a connection with modern English. Very quickly the children were spotting connections themselves and thoroughly enjoying doing it. Latin undeniably helps children to learn other languages, especially the modern European languages which evolved from it. It also offers useful cross-curricular links because it is relevant to subjects as diverse as history, geography and the sciences. Independent



Jamie	Monday, 9. November 2009, 11:27 Post #12
Posts: 123 Group: Members Member #49 Joined: December 3, 2006	I learnt Latin for three years before giving it up when I made my choices for GCSE - I must confess I loathed it, and heartily wish the time I wasted on it had been spent on becoming more fluent in French. However having spent half a lifetime trying to teach some basics of grammar to young reporters - many of whom are English graduates - I would like to see English language (once taught as a separate subject alongside English literature) returned to the curriculum..... Time far better spent in my mind that "filtering" one language through another..... Learning Latin is a rather pointless discipline which is about as useful as learning Welsh..... Edited by Jamie, Monday, 9. November 2009, 12:42.



CARLO	Monday, 9. November 2009, 21:50 Post #13
Posts: 1,687 Group: Members Member #27 Joined: September 28, 2006	Jamie Monday, 9. November 2009, 11:27 I learnt Latin for three years before giving it up when I made my choices for GCSE - I must confess I loathed it, and heartily wish the time I wasted on it had been spent on becoming more fluent in French. However having spent half a lifetime trying to teach some basics of grammar to young reporters - many of whom are English graduates - I would like to see English language (once taught as a separate subject alongside English literature) returned to the curriculum..... Time far better spent in my mind that "filtering" one language through another..... Learning Latin is a rather pointless discipline which is about as useful as learning Welsh..... Jamie, I agree with you about reintroducing English Language in order that pupils can learn something of structure and grammar. Sadly I fear that such is the influence of US English these days, the basis of text and internet 'English', that few pupils are likely to be interested at least in the short term. At grammar school in the 1960s I enjoyed both English Language and English Literature and owe what little communication skills I have today to the influence of my teachers. However I profoundly disagree with your statements about French, Latin and Welsh. With regard to your wish to have studied more French - unless you have an interest in French literature what would be the point? Many French people speak fluent English as well as French - the product of an education that does not regard the languages of other countries with complete contempt! Why would anyone want to employ a British interpreter to deal with French when the French do it so much better? Welsh in Wales is a compulsory national curriculum subject up to GCSE level. The last 60 years have also seen the rapid and successful rise of totally Welsh language education in both primary and secondary schools in Wales for those that opt for it. Thus many Welsh schoolchildren are now fluent in two languages by the age of 12 - a wonderful achievement and one that tends to sweep away the British fear of learning other languages based mostly on outdated imperial attitudes. And if Latin is coming back to state schools then sing 'Gloria!'. In the words of Oliver Cromwell: "Not what they want but what they need!" Veritas Truth CARLO Edited by CARLO, Monday, 9. November 2009, 21:56.
	Judica me Deus


John Sweeney	Monday, 9. November 2009, 23:23 Post #14
Posts: 1,841 Group: Members Member #68 Joined: March 20, 2007	I endorse entirely what Carlo has to say about Welsh. Interestingly Tourism Wales today published a survey it had conducted with potential and actual visitors to Wales in the English regions surrounding Wales and in Ireland. One finding was that English visitors felt WElsh would be an isolating factor for them whereas Irish visitors "respected the language and liked to hear it spoken" John



Jamie	Tuesday, 10. November 2009, 12:31 Post #15
Posts: 123 Group: Members Member #49 Joined: December 3, 2006	But as so few people speak Welsh even in Wales - I believe only about 15% of the very small population - one can't help feeling that their time would have been better spent on a language which would allow them to communicate with other people on as wide a basis as possible. Unless they enjoy being members of a secret club..... I meet a Dane in Provence who started chatting to me once he realised I was English. Have you been to Denmark? he asked. I replied: "No - but I have eaten the bacon" This exchange was sufficient for us to realise we had the same sense humour and we passed a very pleasant lunch together during which I complimented him on his command of English.... He said as there are only about 6million Danes they all had to learn another more useful language or wander around Europe mute and alone as no-one but Danes actually speaks Danish. Like most of my contemporaries who took French to "0" level my command of French was limited - I'd like to have been very much more fluent in conversational French: French literature is another option altogether. And never more so than since I bought a second home in France ten years ago. And if only I knew anyone who spoke Esperanto I'd be very keen to learn that - a universal language shorn of political overtones would surely be a boon to the world and to the promotion of peace. it should be compulsory in every school in every nation and we would have a world that could talk to each other everywhere in 20 years. I'm afraid my enthusiasm for Latin foundered once I realised that adjectives, for example, came in so many different versions: nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, ablative, vocative, and locative, singular and plural, for masculine, feminine and neuter. Far from being logical, why learn 42 different words for bona when a simple "good" will do? No - I'm afraid Latin is for sadists, nerds and Nobby-No-Mates



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