New prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship?

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New prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship?
Topic Started: Monday, 13. October 2008, 21:59 (413 Views)
Rose of York	Monday, 13. October 2008, 21:59 Post #1
Administrator Posts: 14,099 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	Full CCN Article Quote: Andrea Tornielli of Il Giornale has written that Cardinal Franics Arinze, the prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship, will soon be replaced by a Spanish prelate, Cardinal Antonio Canizares Llovera of Toledo. Quote: In a move announced quietly on September 24, Pope Benedict appointed an entirely new group of consultors to the office of Pontifical Liturgical Celebrations. The new consultors had strong conservative credentials. And as the Catholic News Agency observed: "Also relevant to the appointments is the fact that all former consultants, appointed when Archbishop Piero Marini led the office of Liturgical Celebrations, have been dismissed since their appointments were not renewed." Those appointments signaled the opening of a new chapter in what may be the key story of this pontificate: the battle for liturgical reform. The fresh rumors of impending change at the Congregation for Divine Worship indicate that the battle has been joined.
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John Sweeney	Monday, 13. October 2008, 22:13 Post #2
Posts: 1,739 Group: Members Member #68 Joined: March 20, 2007	Thamks Rose. Great to see they're getting the priorities right. More squabbling over posh or plain frocks looming again. John



Rose of York	Tuesday, 14. October 2008, 00:03 Post #3
Administrator Posts: 14,099 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	John I hope high standards filter down from the top. We need to see an end of the nonsense of "Everybody has a right to DO something". Reading, giving Holy Communion, and serving at Mass are services, not rights. We DO something when we pray. My top priority would be a return to the gestures that pulled us up, reminded us we were in God's house, at a Holy Sacrifice. Bring back genuflection. Bring back bowing at the name of Jess. BAN laity from wandering around during Mass, checking all is well.
	$Posted Image$ Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards


Deleted User	Tuesday, 14. October 2008, 00:37 Post #4
Deleted User	Rose of York Tuesday, 14. October 2008, 00:03 John I hope high standards filter down from the top. We need to see an end of the nonsense of "Everybody has a right to DO something". Reading, giving Holy Communion, and serving at Mass are services, not rights. We DO something when we pray. My top priority would be a return to the gestures that pulled us up, reminded us we were in God's house, at a Holy Sacrifice. Bring back genuflection. Bring back bowing at the name of Jess. BAN laity from wandering around during Mass, checking all is well. Quote: Bring back genuflection Already back Quote: BAN laity from wandering around during Mass, checking all is well. Huh?
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Rose of York	Tuesday, 14. October 2008, 00:51 Post #5
Administrator Posts: 14,099 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	JD genuflection is not back in practise, it is treated, by many, as optional. Anyway this is about the possible appointment of a new Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship. Whoever holds that post, and whatever decrees are issued, will make no difference, unless they are properly enforced.[redit][/redit]
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John Sweeney	Tuesday, 14. October 2008, 22:41 Post #6
Posts: 1,739 Group: Members Member #68 Joined: March 20, 2007	Rose I sympathise to some extent with the feelings you express. However, none of these things will ever come back and no matter who is in Rome , things will not change unless the laity so decree. I have said in other threads that the Church is led by the laity who no longer follow centralised instructions. We may not like it but that is how it works nowadays. I could go over the arguments but will spare you that. But can you imagine Rome issuing an instruction on any of your 3 points which would make the slightest difference? I welcome this decentralisation although I appreciate that others hate it John



Deleted User	Tuesday, 14. October 2008, 22:49 Post #7
Deleted User	John Sweeney Tuesday, 14. October 2008, 22:41 Rose I sympathise to some extent with the feelings you express. However, none of these things will ever come back and no matter who is in Rome , things will not change unless the laity so decree. I have said in other threads that the Church is led by the laity who no longer follow centralised instructions. We may not like it but that is how it works nowadays. I could go over the arguments but will spare you that. But can you imagine Rome issuing an instruction on any of your 3 points which would make the slightest difference? I welcome this decentralisation although I appreciate that others hate it John Wow, thats a rather protestant statement. The Laity do not run the Church. If the Pope Decrees, the Priests have to follow the Rubric, and the faithful ones would make it happen. For example, bring back the kneelers so people can choose to stand or kneel, and many choose the latter, stop people receiving Communion in their mouths. This would be the Priest imposing the will of Rome, and there aint anything the laity could do. I mean, they go up, hold out their hand, and the Priest says Body of Christ, and just holds it in the air waiting for the person to decide to receive or sit down. The same applies to facing east, and the new translation of the Mass, including changes laity parts, oh and the EF, if Rome forces its will. Bring back genuflection - that can happen through good catechesis, and can be pushed for Communion. Bring back bowing at the name of Jesus - easy, spend time talking about the theology, but again this is a personal choice for people. The freedom is there. BAN laity from wandering around during Mass, checking all is well - easy, speak to the people at the end of Mass, if it goes on, publically say something.[redit][/redit]
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Rose of York	Tuesday, 14. October 2008, 23:54 Post #8
Administrator Posts: 14,099 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	Joseph Dylong Tuesday, 14. October 2008, 22:49 The Laity do not run the Church. in some places they try to run the parishes. We have a problem. Due to the shortage of priests, those who should not be ministering are permitted to continue. That leads to a vicious circle. A good priest is a role model, for young men who will be attracted to follow in his footsteps. A not so good priest puts them off, and so the rot continues.
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Rose of York	Tuesday, 14. October 2008, 23:56 Post #9
Administrator Posts: 14,099 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	John Sweeney Tuesday, 14. October 2008, 22:41 I have said in other threads that the Church is led by the laity who no longer follow centralised instructions. We may not like it but that is how it works nowadays. That may be how it happens nowadays, but it does not work. Put the monkey in charge of a zoo, see if the monkeys are capable of running the place.
	$Posted Image$ Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards


Deleted User	Wednesday, 15. October 2008, 00:04 Post #10
Deleted User	Rose of England Tuesday, 14. October 2008, 23:56 John Sweeney Tuesday, 14. October 2008, 22:41 I have said in other threads that the Church is led by the laity who no longer follow centralised instructions. We may not like it but that is how it works nowadays. That may be how it happens nowadays, but it does not work. Put the monkey in charge of a zoo, see if the monkeys are capable of running the place. Yeah, and they move the tabernacle, and knock a hole into the Church to have a kitchen linked, so they can eat, drink and gossip in Church.[redit][/redit]
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Rose of York	Wednesday, 15. October 2008, 00:32 Post #11
Administrator Posts: 14,099 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	John Sweeney Tuesday, 14. October 2008, 22:41 Rose I sympathise to some extent with the feelings you express. However, none of these things will ever come back and no matter who is in Rome , things will not change unless the laity so decree. I have said in other threads that the Church is led by the laity who no longer follow centralised instructions. We may not like it but that is how it works nowadays. I could go over the arguments but will spare you that. But can you imagine Rome issuing an instruction on any of your 3 points which would make the slightest difference? I welcome this decentralisation although I appreciate that others hate it John If change happens when laity so decree, and if the Church is led by "laity who no longer follow centralised instructions", then, each parish will be led by the person with the strongest character. One parish will do things this way. Another parish will do things that way. John, how far do you want that to go? I know people will not blindly obey on my 3 points, quoted below, but there is nothing to prevent our priests explaining what they are about. Quote: Bring back genuflection. Bring back bowing at the name of Jess. BAN laity from wandering around during Mass, checking all is well. [redit]spelling correction[/redit] Edited by Rose of York, Wednesday, 15. October 2008, 01:18.
	$Posted Image$ Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards


Deleted User	Wednesday, 15. October 2008, 00:40 Post #12
Deleted User	Rose of England Wednesday, 15. October 2008, 00:32 Quote: Bring back genuflection. Bring back bowing at the name of Jess. BAN laity from wandering around during Mass, checking all is well. [redit][/redit] I hope people dont bow at the name of Jess but Jesus
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Gerard	Wednesday, 15. October 2008, 12:13 Post #13
Posts: 3,003 Group: Members Member #12 Joined: September 26, 2006	Joseph, I wonder if you ever came across the comment by Pope John Paul II that: "sometimes the people follow the bishops and sometimes the bishops follow the people" and I say, yes, this is how the Holy Spirit works in the Church. Gerry
	"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).


Fortunatus	Wednesday, 15. October 2008, 23:15 Post #14
Posts: 718 Group: Members Member #98 Joined: September 3, 2007	Quote: I wonder if you ever came across the comment by Pope John Paul II that: "sometimes the people follow the bishops and sometimes the bishops follow the people" And Milton said, "the hungry sheep look up and are not fed" and it was bishops he was talking about. Occasionally, of course, the bishops neither follow nor lead (nor feed); they wander aimlessly about chasing the latest political will o' the wisp. I doubt the Holy Spirit had that in mind.



John Sweeney	Thursday, 16. October 2008, 21:15 Post #15
Posts: 1,739 Group: Members Member #68 Joined: March 20, 2007	A mere aside ,Fortunatus, but interesting you should quote Milton, that most Protestant of men. John



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