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| Allerton Bywater; Closure of Churches in Diocese of Leeds | |
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| Topic Started: Saturday, 9. August 2008, 15:14 (1,468 Views) | |
| Rose of York | Saturday, 11. October 2008, 13:48 Post #151 |
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Bishop Roche has arranged for a Latin Mass be offered, every Sunday, quite close to Allerton Bywater. Patrick how do you know Father Lawler has done nothing wrong? Disciplinary matters are confidential. The bishop is hardly likely to reveal all. We read that Bishop Roche announces closures, by sending a video to parishes. My sister confirmed that the videos are accompanied by open discussion. No church has been closed at the drop of a hat. Her opinion is that, though the situation is distressing (people get attached to their churches) consultation is more than adequate and in her parish, people who wrote to the bishop did get replies. A resident of the Huddersfield deanery told me the same happened when their consultations took place. |
  Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards | |
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| Deleted User | Saturday, 11. October 2008, 15:37 Post #152 |
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A Priest serves in the Ministry of the Bishop, he helps him fulfill his duty of pastoral care to those in his Diocese.
Not accurate compared to other areas, in fact, Leeds presented three men to Valladolid for pre seminary formation last year, and I suspect more have gone forward this year. I also remind you, Bishop Roche allows the Fransicans of the Renewal to serve in Bradford, and they are very Orthodox. Moreover, Bishop Roche led the New Translation of the Ordinary Rite, making that beautiful liturgy even better. The Bishop has removed the faculties of the said Priest, and even if the Parish were still open, the Bishop could have taken the same action to protect the laity. The Priest can appeal but must abide by the decree until such time Rome says otherwise, which I bet they dont. The priest, by his actions, has shown the Bishops concerns to be realised.
No Priest can act alone seperate from Church authroity. He is subject to his local Bishop, and it is against the Church for a Priest to be independant. He has had his faculties removed so confessions, marriages etc are invalid. The Bishop has the authority to close any Parish in his Diocese, moreover, I gather from comments, there is a Church nearby. Not every village or small town can have its own Parish.
Then he really would be a schismatic. I also remind you, he would be unable to join any Order in the Church without being released by the local Bishop. Otherwise, you end up like that Parish in Australia.[redit][/redit] |
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| Deleted User | Saturday, 11. October 2008, 15:40 Post #153 |
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Exactly, all we get are a few local responses, and Damian Thompson banging on everyday, which could damage Bishop Roche, and maybe even cause scandal. The whole debate is one sided, no wonder, Cardinal Hoyos is annoyed at Traditional bloggers. The Bishop has spoken on the subject of the closings, with very good answers, yet, these are never mentioned. |
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| Derekap | Saturday, 11. October 2008, 16:27 Post #154 |
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Patrick wrote: "Fr Mark Lawler would do well to tell the bishop where to shove his faculties and join a Traditional Order where a priest of his calibre would be most welcome and at home." I think this remark is extremely inappropriate on a Catholic forum. |
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| OsullivanB | Saturday, 11. October 2008, 17:04 Post #155 |
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Surely you meant to write "even on a Catholic forum"? Actually, I think you're being over-harsh. Much worse things are written on Catholic fora which pass unchided because they are written in more temperate language. Personally, I enjoy a flash of temperament, even when the flash illuminates nothing. Edited by OsullivanB, Saturday, 11. October 2008, 17:22.
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| Rose of York | Saturday, 11. October 2008, 19:30 Post #156 |
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There is more than one other church nearby. Within three miles, there are four churches with a choice of ten Masses, including one In the Extra-ordinary Form 3.00pm. St. Joseph Location: Pontefract Road, Castleford Sunday Mass Time: 6pm (Vigil) 10am, 6pm; Mass In The Extra-ordinary Form 3.00pm Holy Day Mass Time: 9:30am, 7:30pm St. Michael Location: Hill Top, Knottingley Sunday Mass Time: 6pm (Vigil) 9.45am Holy Day Mass Time: 9am, 7pm Full Disabled Access & Toilet Loop System for Hearing Aid St. Joseph Location: Back Street, Pontefract Sunday Mass Time: 8:00am, 11am, 6:30pm Holy Day Mass Time: 7pm (Vigil); 9am, 12 Noon Map showing Allerton Bywater, Castleford and Pontefract Allerton Bywater is one the edge of one of the most densely populated areas in the country, road links are good. There are dozens of Masses within half an hour drive. It is not like remote places such as Cumbria, the North York Moors or the West Country. It may be that some people who post on Holy Smoke think "Yorkshire - ah the Dales" and are blissfully unaware of the variety in that county. |
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Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards | |
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| Rose of York | Saturday, 11. October 2008, 19:45 Post #157 |
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The consultation process for the City of Leeds commences. http://www.dioceseofleeds.org.uk/d_bishop/letters2.php?letterid=30 No doubt there will be complaints from people who have never been near the place. That city has undergone much redevelopment. There are good reasons for changes. This gives some idea of the use of the DVDs. They can be viewed at home. That gives people who cannot get to consultation meetings an opportunity to know what is proposed, and unlike consultation meetings, DVDs are a permanent record. |
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Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards | |
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| Rose of York | Monday, 13. October 2008, 01:52 Post #158 |
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Patrick a certain posting of yours took some finding. It is on Page 22 of the Summorum Pontificum thread, it gave the impression you thought that, being a Yorkshireman, Derek's experiences of Mass attendance must have been in a mining town. I had to explain a little about not all of Yorkshire being on a coalfield. It is not possible to grasp the situation of a bishop in any area, unless you fully understand the geography, population and infrastructure. The Diocese of Leeds has churches in the Pennine Mountains, where there are small churches with an attendance of a few dozen. It may be that by reducing the number of churches in some areas, the people who live up the Pennines and some other areas, will continue to be served by a priest, have the Mass, Confessions, and the Sacrament of the Sick. Would you deprive those people of just one Mass per week, condemning those genuinely unable to travel all but very short journeys, to be totally deprived of the Mass and the Sacraments just to keep one other church open in a place where there are several churches and ten Saturday Vigil and Sunday Masses? Bishop Heenan increased the number of churches for a good reason, which no longer applies. Times have changed. Bishop Roche must make tough decisions. |
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Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards | |
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| Rose of York | Tuesday, 28. April 2009, 23:00 Post #159 |
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There was much criticism, on a certain blog, of Bishop Roche's DVDs. It was suggested he informed people, callously, of church closures. I've found thesecond one Bishop Roche did for the Huddersfield Deanery. Huddersfield is a large town, surrounded by rural areas, some high up in the Penines and sparsley populated. This DVD makes it clear, Bishop Roche fully explained the difficulties, and gave plenty of information. Following the initial consultation he produced the second DVD (link below) inviting further suggestions. http://www.dioceseofleeds.org.uk/video/hudds_dvd.php I just cannot see why bloggers (on other sites) who do not know the Leeds diocese well, complained about this. If my parish has a consultation evening, with a visit from the bishop, if I cannot get there, I must rely upon hearsay for the nitty gritty, only the bare bones would be presented in writing. A DVD for each parishioner can be watched at leisure, those who are housebound wiill be paticularly worried, the DVD gives them a means of being fully informed. The video gives city dwellers insight into the particular difficulties of making adequate provision in rural areas. What Bishop Roche NEVER mentions on his DVD's in the huge influx of muslims. Some parishes have few Catholics living within their boundaries. The bishop has said, he proposes building some new churches where most of the Catholics are now residing i.e. on the outskirts of the towns and in villages. |
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8:38 AM Nov 23