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| Finance - Church, Diocese and Parish | |
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| Topic Started: Monday, 16. October 2006, 23:34 (2,331 Views) | |
| Rose of York | Thursday, 29. November 2007, 14:30 Post #61 |
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Only one bishop would need to attend meetings of the Bishops' Conference and Ad Limina visit to Rome. We have Monsignors in charge of buildings maintenance, compliance with listed building legislation, obtaining planning permission, dealing with health and safety, child protection, disability access. They don't know how to do it as well as professionals, and can make costly mistakes, even risking costly litigation. We get the standard we pay for. The office buildings are there, now. Some could be kept, and some sold. There seems to be no problem about closing churches. I selected a diocese at random, and checked their audit fee. £26,000 for one year. Three dioceses amalgamated would not have to pay three times as much. The only problem I envisage is empire building - excessive administration, as happened when cottage hospitals were closed, and district hospitals built, and they in turn made way for regional hospitals. A bishop's role is, I think, to teach. He does this by pastoral letter. He also has concerns for clergy welfare. He is responsible to The Holy Father and the civil authorities for the governance of his diocese. What else is exclusive to bishops? I do not know. |
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| Rose of York | Monday, 7. January 2008, 22:50 Post #62 |
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Further information is available on the Archdiocesan Website. Here are a couple of snippets:
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| Rose of York | Monday, 7. January 2008, 22:53 Post #63 |
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The Archdiocese of Cardiff does well to plan ahead, and to put the bishop's flock in the picture. First Goal – Clergy Welfare Fund The target is £5million for the support of sick and retired priests. My initial reaction was "that seems a lot" but, at 5% that sum would raise £250,000 per year. On second thoughts, the number of active priests decreases while retired priests increase. Some will need residential care, some will end their days in nursing homes. Active priests who are taken ill might need to go away to convalesce. Considering the relatively low level of allowances for active clergy, they deserve to be well cared for in sickness and old age. Second Goal – Pastoral Strategy Support £2 million to pay for professional resources to support the re-organisation of the Archdiocese? I wonder how much will be raised from the sale of redundant land and properties. Third Goal – Renovation of St. David's Cathedral A cool £2 million! |
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| Deleted User | Monday, 7. January 2008, 23:15 Post #64 |
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Not sure how well the appeal is going yet Rose. As far as I am aware no reports issued yet. I have heard informally that there was a decent rush of one-off donations at first but not the take-up of regular donation pledges that had been hoped for. But this may be out of date news and was unofficial anyway. I'll update when any news as i think there will be similar campaigns elsewhere. John |
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| Deleted User | Thursday, 13. March 2008, 18:23 Post #65 |
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See preceding posts about the Cardiff and Hereford Archdiocese's appeal. The Archdiocesan paper las t month gave the first information about progress and there were conflicting messages. The amount pledged is £1.1m so far and in an article in the paper this is regarded as poor and the writer castigates us for this and points up the traditionally poor record of Catholics in regular collections and so on. However, the official committee minutes of the Archdiocesan Trustees records this as a "good start". Two ways of looking at this , I suppose. £1.1m is not to be sneezed at but it falls well short of target. I think the article writer is probably closer to the mark in his/her assessment in that a good start is everything in these things and we are unlikely to recover to the target position now. John |
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| Rose of York | Thursday, 13. March 2008, 18:46 Post #66 |
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John, what is the average Mass attendance in the Diocese? It will be interesting to calculate the average pledge, per head. |
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| Deleted User | Monday, 14. July 2008, 11:45 Post #67 |
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I see secular press reports that there are allegations--strongly denied--about financial irregularities at Lourdes. The priest concerned and his bishop deny that there is anything wrong. Whatever the outcome, I hope (vainly I know) that any wrongdoing by an individual is not used as a stick to beat the Church. Interestingly, the article said that the controversy had exposed the animosity between the upper part of Lourdes town and the shrine -based activities below. According to the author the former resents the way the latter's activities dominate all aspects of life in the town. John |
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| Rose of York | Monday, 14. July 2008, 14:27 Post #68 |
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Stricter standards of accountability are necessary. According to reports, the priest in charge of the sanctuaries of Lourdes, was being investigated by financial police after a computer highlighted suspicious deposits in his personal account, amounting to £360,000. He claims the cash was a donation from an ageing worshipper. That may be true. I question whether there should a limit above which amounts received as gifts by persons, clerical or pay, must be declared and registered. It is common for Catholics to give small cash gifts to priests, donor and recipient are entitled to privacy - up to a point. |
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| Fortunatus | Monday, 14. July 2008, 14:32 Post #69 |
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Just as I keep hoping (vainly I know) that any wrongdoing is not used as a stick to beat the Monarchy or the Tory Party or the Labour Party or any other party or Local Government or ............ Sorry, John. Join the real world. Individual errors by people who we perceive as being 'role models' or in positions of trust and/or authority or as members of such organisations (ie: politicians, royals, community leaders, priests) are always seen as institutional. Perhaps wrongly but for sure inevitably. |
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| Deleted User | Monday, 14. July 2008, 15:53 Post #70 |
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I agree that this is the way the media behave Fortunatus but I don't think it is inevitable. I know that if , for example, the local vicar runs away with the housekeeper, most people don't assume all vicars are the same. That is the real world I think. People shrug their shoulders and say something like "Ah well, these things happen". The difficulty arises when a vice is seen to be widespread and we all know the obvious example. But I think we can fight off individual misdemeanours OK. In the case I raised in Lourdes we have no proof of any wrongdoing, of course. John |
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| Rose of York | Friday, 24. October 2008, 01:53 Post #71 |
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http://www.indcatholicnews.com/stats324.html For interest, information on giving in the Church of England. I think the average giving in Catholic churches is a miserly £2 to £3 per week compared to £5.38 in the C of E. in 2006.
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| Deleted User | Friday, 24. October 2008, 15:16 Post #72 |
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Thanks Rose it is very interesting to see these figures. Certainly, any figures I have seen for Catholic giving are much lower per head than these C of E ones. Giving is only one aspect of Church life , of course, but this should give us pause for thought. Maybe the Anglican Communion is not so near terminal collapse as some have predicted in other threads. Maybe their loyal followers get on a bit better with practicalities rather than arguing obscure theological points while holding on to the pennies! John |
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| Ned | Friday, 26. December 2008, 18:32 Post #73 |
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THere's a story on page 18 of today's Daily Telegraph 'Churches threatened by huge rise in water bills'. I can't see it on the net yet, but there are similar reports, for example - a report in the Bolton News http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/3994162.MP_calls_for_review_of__unfair__water_charges_for_churches/ These charges will be for surface drainage and calculated on the surface area of the church grounds, even if the surface area concerned is a green space that actually absorbs water. Some little rural churches, on account of their graveyards etc.will be facing bills of up to £5,000 a year. All this of course is on top of other tax changes, for example and as I mentioned a few months ago, churches are now liable to pay business rates on those parts of the church complex not regularly open to the public. There is a hidden Modernist agenda here. In the US anti-religion campaigners openly campaign for the abolition of all tax concessions given to religious groups. Here in Britain it's being done quietly. |
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| PJD | Friday, 26. December 2008, 20:46 Post #74 |
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There is a hidden Modernist agenda here Perhaps at heart more likely a financial agenda? PJD |
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| Rose of York | Friday, 26. December 2008, 21:25 Post #75 |
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There is an online petition to Downing Street, about water rates for churches. currently with 38,205 signatures http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/ChurchWaterBills/ Churches have always been liable for business rates on parish clubs, and rooms devoted purely to social functions, though some parishes don't bother or don't know about it. The rules are quite complicated. How many parish finance committees know they must register for VAT if the receipts from sales, dances, concerts etc are above the threshold, which is currently £67000 pa? Parish clubs that exist solely to finance themselves (ie club profits going to the club, not to parish funds) are taxable. Some parishes got caught on thst one a few years ago. That is what comes of people not consulting the parishioners who work in that field. |
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8:38 PM Jul 11