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| Finance - Church, Diocese and Parish | |
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| Topic Started: Monday, 16. October 2006, 23:34 (2,333 Views) | |
| Rose of York | Saturday, 5. May 2007, 12:19 Post #31 |
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My parish priest was very tired. He had been bogged down in figure work, and was surprised to find he had gone way over budget on a building project. He had known he had overspent, but not by so much. The priest told me maths is not his strong point. I asked him if he had a good bookkeeper or accountant in the parish. He did not know, so I reminded him that I told him, months previously, that I have a few decades experience running an accountancy practice. Priests cannot find time to ask people if they need any form of pastoral care????? Rubbish! |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Rose of York | Saturday, 5. May 2007, 21:05 Post #32 |
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John I understand it is the role of the parish finance committee to draw up an annual budget plan. Having a group, rather than one priest, decide how and by whom accounts are prepared and monitored, makes for transparency and protects the priest from accusations of impropriety. Contractors for repair and maintenance are best chosen by a group of local people (ie finance committee). Between them they are more likely than a parish priest who has just arrived, to know which builders are competent and honest and which are known cowboys*.
*For the benefit of our American forum members, "cowboy builder" is a term for a person who claims to be a builder, but is no builder, and best avoided. I do not know the origin of the expression. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Deleted User | Sunday, 6. May 2007, 12:35 Post #33 |
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Yes Rose, certainly in our diocese all parishes must have a finance committee. I serve on our parish's committee. This is a big improvement on the past and I think ours works quite well. However, it is only advisory, is appointed rather than elected and in general terms I think the system exists as a token rather than as a real democratic, transparent system. I believe that proper elections allied to a real and genuine authority for such committees would lead to more participation. John |
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| Rose of York | Sunday, 6. May 2007, 13:23 Post #34 |
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John, here is a challenge for you: Will you please ask a few parishioners (I suggest six) the following questions, about the most recent parish accounts: 1 How much income did the parish receive, in total? 2 What was (give or take £500) the closing balance of the current account? 3 Does the parish have any investments, and if so what were they worth? I bet you the answers from most people will be: 1 Not much or Not enough 2 How would I know or That is none of my business 3 As 2 In most parishes, accounts are on notice boards. Hardly anybody reads them. They assume they will not understand them. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Deleted User | Monday, 7. May 2007, 14:12 Post #35 |
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Rose, I agree entirely from years of experience that my notional 6 parishioners would react in the way you suggest. To my shame, when I prepared the accounts I secretly welcomed this apathy as it saved any awkward questions at the annual parish meeting! However, I think part of the reason for the incomprehension is the tradtional double entry format and the template used by most parishes. If the time is taken to have a written or oral commentary on the accounts then the interest level rises. As a smalll example when I explained that "tax repayments " in the template was actually our rebate from the Revenue due to our covenants there was a spontaneous round of applause for our "covenanters"! I think we could do more to make all matters, not just finance, more user friendly for people. John |
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| Derekap | Monday, 7. May 2007, 15:25 Post #36 |
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I think parishioners should be made more aware that heating, lighting, candles, wine, the breads for consecration (usually made by nuns), flowers, even the cleaning material for the building and furniture, have to paid for. Incidently nuns I know of who make the breads for our churches, do the same for some non-Catholic churches, which may cause some Catholics to be horrified. |
| Derekap | |
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| sumermamma | Tuesday, 8. May 2007, 21:33 Post #37 |
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Derekap, A farthing is a farthing whether its from a Catholic or Protestant. What you described is today's real world whether they are nuns or not.. sm |
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| Rose of York | Wednesday, 11. July 2007, 00:59 Post #38 |
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I have just found something out, that will interest members who are on parish finance committees, or whose churches are Grade I or II listed. English Heritage have a Grant fund for listed churches. The conditions are pretty stringent. Full information is on their website. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Deleted User | Sunday, 14. October 2007, 12:39 Post #39 |
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Our Archdioces laumched today an appeal for £8.7m over the next 5 years. The appeal has 3 purposes 1. Putting the support for retired priests on a sound financial footing 2. Investing in the pastoral strategy ( teaching, training of lay and religious and employment of professional help to spread the Gospel) 3. Restoration of St David's Cathedral, Cardiff. We were given a very professionally produced pamphlet to back up a talk by our parish organiser volunteer. The idea is to deal direct with the Archdiocesan Campaign Office with our pledges etc with the parishes being used to disseminate info rather than to handle the cash side. The pamphlet says that we will be enlisting aid from other dioceses which have run similar campaigns successfully. Does anyone have any experience of such a campaign? John |
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| Deacon Robert | Sunday, 14. October 2007, 15:24 Post #40 |
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John, My Diocese had a similar plan it was called "Prepare the Way". It covered retirement security for Diocesan Priests plus education benefits for lay people. It did not include religious, ordained, or professional people in the plan. People who applied for funding would recieve 50% of the tuition for their courses and if they went to a Catholic college they would recieve the discount normally given to ordained and religious so the actual course cost cost to the student was 25% of the going rate. The main problem I had with it was that there was no promise that when they completed their studies, the students would work for the Diocese. |
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The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne | |
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| denis | Tuesday, 16. October 2007, 12:39 Post #41 |
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John The same thing is happening up here in my Diocese of Lancaster. We are £9m in the red. About 6 churches are to close in the Blackpool area, and about 7 in the Preston area. We have in progress Mission Review which I suppose is a spring clean of the Diocese in which every Parish is taking part, from Carlisle to Preston, other churches will be closed and others will have the one priest looking after 3 parishes. It is a sad state of affairs throughout the Country but do we ask ourself where has it all gone wrong, do we concentrate too much on the Mass (the Greatest Sacrament of all) and have forsaken all other Devotions or are we just going through life with a could'nt care less attitude. Anyone interested in what we're doing up here just log on to Lancaster Diocese then Mission Review or Mission Blog. The Preston, and Blackpool proposals have been removed as they are now under discussion. |
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| PJD | Tuesday, 16. October 2007, 18:37 Post #42 |
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Our second collection (at door exit) on Saturday was solely for retirement of priests. PJD |
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| Emee | Saturday, 24. November 2007, 01:23 Post #43 |
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What I really don't like is the second collection being whisked around just after Holy Communion when I am trying to have a few quiet moments with my Lord Jesus. I know it's uncharitable, but sometimes if I am trying to pray I'll close my eyes and ignore the plate... I do try to make up for it financially later on. I just object to the timing - sometimes I've just returned to my seat and am just starting to pray and the plate is beside me. If one can't find the peace to pray just after Holy Communion when Jesus is actually living inside a person when can we? It is so important this time be a time of quietness and reverence. I don't feel I am sinning by occasionally ignoring the plate - and I don't always ignore it, again it depends on the timing. But I digress, this thread is for the Sign of Peace... |
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| pete | Saturday, 24. November 2007, 10:59 Post #44 |
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Emee, we dont have the problem with the second collection in our church, the retiring collection is always taken in the church porch as people are leaving. After saying that, the collectors are usually standing there as the ministers leave to take Holy Communion to the sick, this is before the final blessing. I never go through my pockets whilst I am in possession of the Blessed Sacrament; I always leave the retiring collection to my wife. When I attend Mass in the Midlands they always have a collection directly after Communion, I find this very disrespectful, at the moment you are the closest to Our Lord, a collection plate is poked in your face, bringing you instantly back to the material world. God bless Pete |
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| Derekap | Saturday, 24. November 2007, 13:56 Post #45 |
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Lest anyone should think a Second Collection just after distribution of Holy Communion is a post V2 aberration may I mention that for many many years until the introduction of planned-giving the parish I have lived in for most of my life had such a collection as well as at the door going in, the usual place, and at the door going out. Some parishes seem to have more special collections than others. I assume some must give a sum to the cause without a special collection. |
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8:38 PM Jul 11