Good Friday Prayers

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Good Friday Prayers; Possible change in Prayers for Jews
Topic Started: Sunday, 20. January 2008, 22:06 (535 Views)
KatyA	Sunday, 20. January 2008, 22:06 Post #1
Administrator Posts: 5,199 Group: Admin Member #6 Joined: September 26, 2006	According to the Italian daily "Il Giornale", Pope Benedict could soon approve a change in the Good Friday liturgy of the 1962 Missal to eliminate any possible offence to the Jewish people. Quote: Tornielli writes that "the publication of the new text, completely reformulated, should be published in a few days," so that it can be used in the liturgy of this year's Holy Week. The change will eliminate the prayer in Latin that asks God to "liberate that (the Jewish) People from their darkness," as well as a reference to their "blindness." Catholic News Agency I think I'll wait for the publication of the new text before commenting KatyA



KatyA	Tuesday, 5. February 2008, 21:23 Post #2
Administrator Posts: 5,199 Group: Admin Member #6 Joined: September 26, 2006	"In reference to the norms included in the Motu proprio “Summorum Pontificum”, from July 7, 2007, regarding the possibility of using the later version of the Missale Romanum, previous to the Second Vatican Council, published in 1962 with the authority of Blessed John XXIII, The Holy Father Benedict XVI has established that the "Oremus et pro Iudaeis" from Good Friday's Liturgy included in the Missale Romanum will be replaced by the following text: Oremus et pro Iudaeis Ut Deus et Dominus noster illuminet corda eorum, ut agnoscant Iesum Christum salvatorem omnium hominum. Oremus. Flectamus genua. Levate. Omnipotens sempiterne Deus, qui vis ut omnes homines salvi fiant et ad agnitionem veritatis veniant, concede propitius, ut plenitudine gentium in Ecclesiam Tuam intrante omnis Israel salvus fiat. Per Christum Dominum nostrum. Amen. Let us also pray for the Jews that God our Lord should illuminate their hearts, so that they will recognize Jesus Christ, the Savior of all men. Let us pray. Let us genuflect. Rise. All-powerful and eternal God, you who wish that all men be saved and come to the recognition of truth, graciously grant that when the fullness of peoples enters your Church all of Israel will be saved. Through Christ Our Lord, Amen. KatyA



CARLO	Wednesday, 6. February 2008, 19:46 Post #3
Posts: 1,648 Group: Members Member #27 Joined: September 28, 2006	Those against a return to traditional devotions have seized on this matter as a drowning man clutches at a straw but the result has been only a sensible revision by the Holy Father designed to eliminate any suggestion of anti-Semitism however ridiculous. On the whole I think the Holy Father has done the right thing. Judica me Deus O God sustain my cause CARLO
	Judica me Deus


Derekap	Thursday, 7. February 2008, 21:17 Post #4
Posts: 3,357 Group: Members Member #14 Joined: September 26, 2006	Carlo, I haven't seen or heard of any drowning man clutching at straws. The earliest English translation I remember was dreadful. It gave the impression we accused the today's Jews of doing something which happened 2,000 years ago. Frankly it stuck in my gut.
	Derekap


KatyA	Saturday, 15. March 2008, 15:20 Post #5
Administrator Posts: 5,199 Group: Admin Member #6 Joined: September 26, 2006	This item from a non-Catholic source caught my attention Quote: Some ask if prayer problems are limited to Catholics By Matthew Streib (UNDATED) Next week (March 21), some Catholics using the old Latin Mass will utter a controversial Good Friday prayer that has recently strained Catholic-Jewish relations. The prayer calls for the conversion of the Jews, and many Jews thought it had gone away 40 years ago. But all the controversy prompts a larger question: Do Jewish prayers ask the same thing? Every day, Orthodox Jews across the world give thanks that God did not make the Jews like others, who “bow to vanity and emptiness and pray to a god which helps not.” That prompted Chicago's Cardinal Francis George to wonder aloud whether Jews have some liturgical house-cleaning of their own to do. Some Jews say the uproar over the prayers is much ado about nothing, while others say the comparison is inaccurate, and even a bit insulting. http://www.religionnews.com/ I haven't seen Cardinal George's comments, but if they are as suggested then I don't see the problem. It appears that the revised Good Friday prayers are still causing a problem and I really don't understand why. Why should we not pray for everyone's conversion? KatyA



Clare	Sunday, 16. March 2008, 09:43 Post #6
Wacko Schismatic Traditionalist Woman Posts: 3,035 Group: Members Member #70 Joined: March 27, 2007	Derekap Feb 7 2008, 09:17 PM The earliest English translation I remember was dreadful. It gave the impression we accused the today's Jews of doing something which happened 2,000 years ago. Frankly it stuck in my gut. Does the hymn "God of Mercy and Compassion" offend too? It blames all of us for the crucifixion! "To that cross my sins have nailed Him, yet He bleeds and dies for me."
	S.A.G. My attempt at a blog.


Rose of York	Sunday, 16. March 2008, 19:28 Post #7
Administrator Posts: 14,099 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	Clare Mar 16 2008, 09:43 AM Derekap Feb 7 2008, 09:17 PM The earliest English translation I remember was dreadful. It gave the impression we accused the today's Jews of doing something which happened 2,000 years ago. Frankly it stuck in my gut. Does the hymn "God of Mercy and Compassion" offend too? It blames all of us for the crucifixion! "To that cross my sins have nailed Him, yet He bleeds and dies for me." The hymn is sung voluntarily by people who blame themselves. Self accusation does not offend one's self. God of Mercy and Compassion God of mercy and compassion, Look with pity upon me; Father, let me call thee Father, "Tis thy child returns to thee. Refrain: Jesus Lord, I ask for mercy; Let me not implore in vain; All my sins I now detest them, Never will I sin again. By my sins I have deserved, Death and endless misery; Hell with all its pains and torments And for all eternity (Refrain) By my sins I have abandoned Right and claim to heaven above, Where the saints rejoice forever, In a boundless sea of love. (Refrain) See our Saviour, bleeding, dying, On the cross of Calvary; To that cross my sins have nail'd him, Yet he bleeds and dies for me.
	$Posted Image$ Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards


Clare	Sunday, 16. March 2008, 20:15 Post #8
Wacko Schismatic Traditionalist Woman Posts: 3,035 Group: Members Member #70 Joined: March 27, 2007	Rose of York Mar 16 2008, 07:28 PM Clare Mar 16 2008, 09:43 AM Derekap Feb 7 2008, 09:17 PM The earliest English translation I remember was dreadful. It gave the impression we accused the today's Jews of doing something which happened 2,000 years ago. Frankly it stuck in my gut. Does the hymn "God of Mercy and Compassion" offend too? It blames all of us for the crucifixion! "To that cross my sins have nailed Him, yet He bleeds and dies for me." The hymn is sung voluntarily by people who blame themselves. Self accusation does not offend one's self. Here is the traditional prayer: Quote: Let us pray also for the perfidious Jews: that Almighty God may remove the veil from their hearts; so that they too may acknowledge Jesus Christ our Lord. Almighty and eternal God, who dost not exclude from thy mercy even Jewish faithlessness: hear our prayers, which we offer for the blindness of that people; that acknowledging the light of thy Truth, which is Christ, they may be delivered from their darkness. Through the same Lord Jesus Christ, who lives and reigns with thee in the unity of the Holy Spirit, God, for ever and ever. Amen. Where are today's Jews accused of doing something which happened 2000 years ago?
	S.A.G. My attempt at a blog.


Derekap	Monday, 17. March 2008, 15:24 Post #9
Posts: 3,357 Group: Members Member #14 Joined: September 26, 2006	Clare. You seem to have a swarm of bees in your bonnet about Jews. I am sure Almighty God equally loves and fairly judges us all, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Christians and members of all religions and even Atheists. When deciding to include a prayer for the Jews in the liturgy it could have been much more charitiably worded. There was absolutely no need for the word perfidious.
	Derekap


Rose of York	Monday, 17. March 2008, 15:59 Post #10
Administrator Posts: 14,099 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	Derekap Mar 17 2008, 03:24 PM There was absolutely no need for the word perfidious. That is a very important point. The word perfidious was not used in reference to any group other than the Jews. The Vatican did well to remove it.
	$Posted Image$ Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards


Clare	Monday, 17. March 2008, 20:19 Post #11
Wacko Schismatic Traditionalist Woman Posts: 3,035 Group: Members Member #70 Joined: March 27, 2007	Rose of York Mar 17 2008, 03:59 PM Derekap Mar 17 2008, 03:24 PM There was absolutely no need for the word perfidious. That is a very important point. The word perfidious was not used in reference to any group other than the Jews. That's because the Jews were the chosen people! They were a special case!And that they rejected the Messiah that their Scriptures had been warning them about! And their Scriptures also warned them that they would reject Him. And still they did not take the hint! Hence the "blindness" business. Funny how centuries of saints never complained about this word. Including converts from Judaism. What an insensitive, callous bunch they must have been.
	S.A.G. My attempt at a blog.


Clare	Monday, 17. March 2008, 20:24 Post #12
Wacko Schismatic Traditionalist Woman Posts: 3,035 Group: Members Member #70 Joined: March 27, 2007	Derekap Mar 17 2008, 03:24 PM Clare. You seem to have a swarm of bees in your bonnet about Jews. I'm not the one who is offended by a word used in the Catholic liturgy for well over a millennium. The bees are in your bonnet, Derek.
	S.A.G. My attempt at a blog.


KatyA	Thursday, 20. March 2008, 22:40 Post #13
Administrator Posts: 5,199 Group: Admin Member #6 Joined: September 26, 2006	There is an interesting article on Good Friday Prayers on Catholic Culture Pope Pius XII ordered in 1955 that perfidies be translated as “unbelieving”. In 1959, Pope John XXIII dropped perfidies altogether. Since 1962, the extraordinary form, still celebrated in Latin, was Quote: For the conversion of Jews: Let us pray also for the Jews that the Lord our God may take the veil from their hearts and that they also may acknowledge our Lord Jesus Christ. Let us pray: Almighty and everlasting God, you do not refuse your mercy even to the Jews; hear the prayers which we offer for the blindness of that people so that they may acknowledge the light of your truth, which is Christ, and be delivered from their darkness. and the ordinary form Quote: Let us pray for the Jewish people, the first to hear the word of God, that they may continue to grow in the love of his name and in faithfulness to his covenant. Almighty and eternal God, long ago you gave your promise to Abraham and his posterity. Listen to your Church as we pray that the people you first made your own may arrive at the fullness of redemption. Pope Benedict has approved a change to the extraordinary form so that the Latin prayer now translates as Quote: Let us also pray for the Jews: that God our Lord might enlighten their hearts, so that they might know Jesus Christ as the Savior of all mankind. [Let us pray. Let us bend our knees (kneel). Please rise.] Almighty and eternal God, whose desire it is that all men might be saved and come to the knowledge of truth, grant in your mercy that as the fullness of mankind enters into your Church, all Israel may be saved, through Christ our Lord. Amen. KatyA



Rose of York	Thursday, 20. March 2008, 23:33 Post #14
Administrator Posts: 14,099 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	KatyA Mar 20 2008, 10:40 PM There is an interesting particle on Good Friday Prayers on Catholic Culture Pope Pius XII ordered in 1955 that perfidies be translated as “unbelieving”. In 1959, Pope John XXIII dropped perfidies altogether. Since 1962, the extraordinary form, still celebrated in Latin, was Quote: For the conversion of Jews: Let us pray also for the Jews that the Lord our God may take the veil from their hearts and that they also may acknowledge our Lord Jesus Christ. Let us pray: Almighty and everlasting God, you do not refuse your mercy even to the Jews; hear the prayers which we offer for the blindness of that people so that they may acknowledge the light of your truth, which is Christ, and be delivered from their darkness. The significant phrase is "even the Jews". I thought, what if I heard other people praying, asking God not to remove his mercy, even from Rose of York. Just a thought! :D
	$Posted Image$ Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards


Clare	Friday, 21. March 2008, 16:14 Post #15
Wacko Schismatic Traditionalist Woman Posts: 3,035 Group: Members Member #70 Joined: March 27, 2007	Rose of York Mar 20 2008, 11:33 PM KatyA Mar 20 2008, 10:40 PM There is an interesting particle on Good Friday Prayers on Catholic Culture Pope Pius XII ordered in 1955 that perfidies be translated as “unbelieving”. In 1959, Pope John XXIII dropped perfidies altogether. Since 1962, the extraordinary form, still celebrated in Latin, was Quote: For the conversion of Jews: Let us pray also for the Jews that the Lord our God may take the veil from their hearts and that they also may acknowledge our Lord Jesus Christ. Let us pray: Almighty and everlasting God, you do not refuse your mercy even to the Jews; hear the prayers which we offer for the blindness of that people so that they may acknowledge the light of your truth, which is Christ, and be delivered from their darkness. The significant phrase is "even the Jews". I thought, what if I heard other people praying, asking God not to remove his mercy, even from Rose of York. Just a thought! :D I've just read through the Good Friday liturgy in my 1961 missal, and the word "even" isn't there. The word "also" is there instead. Not that there's anything wrong with the word "even" in the prayer.
	S.A.G. My attempt at a blog.


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