Beatification "imminent" For Cardinal Newman

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Beatification "imminent" For Cardinal Newman
Topic Started: Thursday, 10. January 2008, 00:40 (1,110 Views)
Gerard	Friday, 11. January 2008, 13:02 Post #16
Posts: 3,125 Group: Members Member #12 Joined: September 26, 2006	Michaeljohn Jan 11 2008, 12:45 PM Quote: P.S. Christians are all Saints anyway. Gerry Unless you're prepared to define "saint" then that statement is bordering on heresy. Michaeljohn, Take it up with St Paul, who put it into the Bible. ...or take it up with whoever put it into the Creed. Gerry
	"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).


Rose of York	Friday, 11. January 2008, 14:54 Post #17
Administrator Posts: 14,561 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	Rose of York Before I believe that particular miracle, of a man bent double now standing up straight and walking with a normal gait, I would like to see some evidence. Here is the best article I have found, about the cure of the Deacon. Link
	$Posted Image$ Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards


John Sweeney	Friday, 11. January 2008, 22:12 Post #18
Posts: 1,853 Group: Members Member #68 Joined: March 20, 2007	Joan M I'm familiar with the process and the part "miracles" play in it. I think the idea of scouring the world for seemingly miraculous events attributed to prayers to the would -be saint is a nonsense. There are many so called miraculous events which happen without any prayers to anyone, the most likely explanation to most being that medicine has not caught up with the real causes. But what about all the prayers to the would -be saint that don't result in miracles--should they count against the canonisation cause? If not, why not? John



Joan M	Saturday, 12. January 2008, 15:51 Post #19
Posts: 61 Group: Members Member #111 Joined: December 4, 2007	John, why do you put the word miracles in inverted quotes? Do you not believe that there are miracles in the canonization process? Or do you believe that what the Church has declared are miracles are fake? The examination of the miracles is very in-depth and intense and they are not easily declared miracles. Miracles that are considered in the canonization process are those in which either the person cured and/or persons praying for the cure all prayed to the candidate for sainthood. They do not scour the world. People who have prayed to the candidate for sainthood and have received an answer to their prayers write to the Postulator for the Cause giving details. Not all prayers offered to candidates for sainthood, to canonized saints, or directly to God obtain an affirmative answer. If you pray directly to God and do not get the answer you want, does this count against God? There are three possible answers to every prayer - Yes. No. And wait. So, why should prayers to a candidate for sainthood that do not obtain an afirmative answer count against the canonization cause? Of course they don't. We never have received and never will receive the answer we want to all our prayers.
	Peace and love, Joan. The world thrives on lies even twenty centuries after the Truth came among men. The Forge, 130. St. Josemaria Escriva.


John Sweeney	Saturday, 12. January 2008, 16:00 Post #20
Posts: 1,853 Group: Members Member #68 Joined: March 20, 2007	Joan, I tend to think that miracles are declared such because our knowledge of medicine has not developed sufficiently in the areas concerned for us to know the real scientific reason for the cure. In a case like , say, John Paul 2, there wyll be millions of prayers offered throughout the world over several years. It is a fair bet that just by the law of averages there will be one or two unexplained cures. Why should they be attributed to the saint intervening in these cases and all the other of unsuccesful prayers disregarded? Seems crazy to me. John



Joan M	Saturday, 12. January 2008, 21:56 Post #21
Posts: 61 Group: Members Member #111 Joined: December 4, 2007	Well, John, I can only say that your scepticism is incomprehensible to me. It seems we will continue to differ in this. I firmly believe in miracles - and I know that our friends in Heaven (the saints) care for us and help us, as do our Guardian Angels. I have experienced this. I also realize that you would find my experiences not to be miracles. No matter. God Bless.
	Peace and love, Joan. The world thrives on lies even twenty centuries after the Truth came among men. The Forge, 130. St. Josemaria Escriva.


John Sweeney	Sunday, 13. January 2008, 14:04 Post #22
Posts: 1,853 Group: Members Member #68 Joined: March 20, 2007	Joan I guess you're right that we shall have to differ. Bear with me for one story which might explain my viewpoint a bit better. After that I'll shut up about this. 12 years ago, for work purposes, I was involved in documenting the case of a man who had been "miraculously" cured of a cancer which should have killed him. Our doctors were baffled and the top medical experts from this country and well beyond came and investigated and could not explain it either. He is still alive and well and regular checks have shown no sign of re-occurrence. Now this man and his family had no thought of writing to any Postulator because they had never heard of any such thing. They had no religious thought in their heads and had prayed to no-one. However, they swore that the miracle had been brought about by the intervention of a crystal -healer, a woman friend of the family who experimented with dangling different types of crystal over his body until she hit on the right one which had cured the cancer. I had the opportunity to speak direct to this "healer" and asked her why if her intervention was the answer we did not see mass ranks of cured cancer patients lining up to sing the praises of this therapy. She said that it failed sometimes because the right type of crystal could not be found and pointed out that people had to believe in the therapy for it to work and although many said they did we could not be sure how they really felt in their hearts. This began to sound uncomfortably like our own reasoning for the faiure of prayers and scarcity of miracles! John



Joan M	Sunday, 13. January 2008, 14:32 Post #23
Posts: 61 Group: Members Member #111 Joined: December 4, 2007	John, I really, really cannot see any way that this story can come even close to a miraculous answer to prayer to God, whether directly or through the intercession of a saint. Come on! You are equating prayer with crystals???? :blink:
	Peace and love, Joan. The world thrives on lies even twenty centuries after the Truth came among men. The Forge, 130. St. Josemaria Escriva.


John Sweeney	Sunday, 13. January 2008, 20:01 Post #24
Posts: 1,853 Group: Members Member #68 Joined: March 20, 2007	No Joan, I am equating the reasoning. The crystal "healer" argued exactly like a Catholic claiming a "miracle" cure. What difference could I point to apart from chanting that our faith was true while hers was nonsense? An outside observer would conclude that the arguments were the same. John



Derekap	Sunday, 13. January 2008, 21:14 Post #25
Posts: 3,415 Group: Members Member #14 Joined: September 26, 2006	I understand that whilst very many miracles of healing may take place at Lourdes very very few healings are officially recognised as miracles. This is not to say that other healings are considered false or a hoax it is just that not all cases may be investigated and in some cases the medical evidence is not convincing enough.
	Derekap


KatyA	Tuesday, 22. April 2008, 23:18 Post #26
Administrator Posts: 5,421 Group: Admin Member #6 Joined: September 26, 2006	According to the Sunday Times, the beatification of Cardinal Newman is about to be announced Quote: AN ANGLICAN priest whose conversion to Catholicism shocked Victorian England will this week take a big step to becoming the first new British saint for almost 40 years. The Vatican will announce the beatification of Cardinal John Henry Newman after accepting that he was responsible for a miracle in which an American clergyman was �cured� of a crippling spinal disorder. Newman will be given the title �Blessed� after a ceremony later this year, leaving him one step away from full sainthood. If the Catholic church attributes a further miracle to him, Newman could be canonised as early as 2009. Timesonline



Rose of York	Tuesday, 22. April 2008, 23:28 Post #27
Administrator Posts: 14,561 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	I wonder if the announcement will be made today, St George's Day?
	$Posted Image$ Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards


James	Tuesday, 22. April 2008, 23:50 Post #28
James Posts: 1,108 Group: Members Member #54 Joined: January 13, 2007	he was responsible for a miracle ??? I think John Henry Newman would be the last person to see it like that !!! Lord, I give myself to thee. I trust thee wholly, Thou art wiser than - more loving to me than myself. Deign to fulfil Thy high purposes in me whatever they be - work in and through me. I am born to serve Thee and to be Thine. To be thy instrument . Let me be Thy blind instrument . I ask not to see - I ask not to know - I ask simply to be used - Amen. John Henry Newman



KatyA	Wednesday, 23. April 2008, 20:49 Post #29
Administrator Posts: 5,421 Group: Admin Member #6 Joined: September 26, 2006	I am a little puzzled. Reports from the usual Catholic sources credit this story to the Birmingham Mail or Times on line, and since I can find no Vatican announcement, I'd like to know where they got the information. I can't find anything later than that posted back in January Quote: Cardinal Jos� Saraiva Martins told L'Osservatore Romano that a decree authorizing the beatification of the Anglican convert and theologian is "imminent." The Vatican will also soon approve the beatification of Louis and Zelie-Marie Martin, the parents of St. Therese of Lisieux, the cardinal told the Vatican newspaper. Has there been a further Vatican announcement or not? KatyA



Rose of York	Wednesday, 23. April 2008, 20:57 Post #30
Administrator Posts: 14,561 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	KatyA Apr 23 2008, 09:49 PM I can't find anything later than that posted back in January Never mind, Katy. We can't all be clever. :D Try this report, 12 hours old. http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=12435
	$Posted Image$ Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards


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