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Vatican Support For Bishop O'Donoghue's Initiative; Schools "Fit for Mission" programme
Topic Started: Monday, 31. December 2007, 18:03 (1,412 Views)
Joseph

And hopefully not only youngsters Rose!

"Fit For Mission? Schools!" for the yoof!

"Fit For Mission? Church!" for the rest of us!

So Let's Go, shall we? :-)
Joseph
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Apparently, Bishop O'Donaghue preached a retreat for priests in Ars, France last month and the text of his three talks is available on the Lancaster Diocese website : Rich in Christ, rich in love
Fr Finigan draws attention to some of the more controversial remarks made by Bishop O'Donaghue including this one
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Conspiracy of silence. This cocktail of dissent, disobedience and disloyalty has resulted in what I call a ‘conspiracy of silence’ amongst groups in the Church. There is no real dialogue or willingness to talk openly and honestly about our differences. For example, I don’t know why my Fit for Mission? documents hit a wall of silence among the bishops in this country. All I did was re-iterate the teaching of the Church, but this has been treated as unacceptable and unspeakable. Why?

I do hope the good Bishop will continue to speak out in his retirement.
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...and the Catholic Herald picks up Bishop O'Donaghue's remarks this week Bishop: disobedience is harming the Church
Unfortunately, this is the only aspect of Bishop O'Donaghue's retreat talks which is reported.
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denis

Bishop O'Donoghue takes up his new appointment on July 3rd as assistant priest in Bantry Co Cork
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PJD

This was an interesting saga. When discussing these docusments (in the lower house mainly) my main criticism was a notable absence of proper instructions regarding the 7th, 8th and 10th Commandments. The 6th and 9th were of course well represented - and quite rightly so.

However since the advent of the credit crunch and the expenses scandal, we now see the wisdom of considering all the commandments in equality that is. Previously there was a reluctance to go into some of the commandments in some depth - why I don't really know, probably too inconvenient for some I suggest - but now at least some sort of parity is evident. I don't blame the good bishop for this - because I write now from hindsight.

Personally, of recent times, I have always thought that unless equal theological debate is given both to the sensual and temporal orders, it is unlikely that much progress will be made. In other words the rights and wrongs of addressing disobedience to the former should be accompanied by addressing the rights and wrongs of obedience to the latter.

PJD

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Mairtin
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When one bishop writes an analysis of the issues facing the Church and the other bishops ignore him then it is indeed possible that there is some "conspiracy of silence" against him.

It is equally possible that the other bishops don't agree with his conclusions but simply don't want to squabble with him in public, especially when he is near retirement anyway.

The fact that the bishop in question has chosen what is far away the most disobeyed and disputed issue in the Church as "the litmus test of the acceptance of the obedience in the Church" strongly suggests the second option to me.
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Rose of York
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Mairtin
Friday, 3. July 2009, 10:12
The fact that the bishop in question has chosen what is far away the most disobeyed and disputed issue in the Church as "the litmus test of the acceptance of the obedience in the Church" strongly suggests the second option to me.
Mairtin:

What is that most disobeyed and disputed issue in the Church?
Keep the Faith!

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Perhaps I am seeing things in a different light,Mairtin, but the Pope's recent homily suggests to me that he might share Bishop O'Donaghue's views on obedience.
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PJD

Wasn't SORS a litmus test?
(as well)

PJD
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saundthorp

Mairtin
Friday, 3. July 2009, 10:12
When one bishop writes an analysis of the issues facing the Church and the other bishops ignore him then it is indeed possible that there is some "conspiracy of silence" against him.

It is equally possible that the other bishops don't agree with his conclusions but simply don't want to squabble with him in public, especially when he is near retirement anyway.

The fact that the bishop in question has chosen what is far away the most disobeyed and disputed issue in the Church as "the litmus test of the acceptance of the obedience in the Church" strongly suggests the second option to me.
Mairtin,

You make it sound as if there is some sort of hierachy of dissent in the Church. To my way of thinking, to dissent from Catholic teaching is serious, full stop. I don't think Catholics should decide which doctrines are serious ones and which are trivial or minor.
In my experience if a "Catholic" is at odds with Catholic teaching then almost certainly it won't be just one single issue.
Edited by saundthorp, Friday, 3. July 2009, 20:26.
Truth is still the truth even if no one believes it. Error is still error even if everyone believes it.
(Archbishop Fulton Sheen)
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Mairtin
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Rose of York
Friday, 3. July 2009, 12:36
Mairtin
Friday, 3. July 2009, 10:12
The fact that the bishop in question has chosen what is far away the most disobeyed and disputed issue in the Church as "the litmus test of the acceptance of the obedience in the Church" strongly suggests the second option to me.
Mairtin:

What is that most disobeyed and disputed issue in the Church?
Contraception.

In his talks he said
Quote:
 
For example, we have witnessed a wholesale rejection of the Church’s perennial teaching against contraception. This is the litmus test of the acceptance of obedience in the Church.
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Mairtin
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Katy and saundthorp, I'm not seeking to argue the rights and wrongs of what the Bishop is saying, I'm simply pointing out that his complaint about a "conspiracy of silence" amounts to him saying that everybody is out of step except himself, "everybody" in this case being his fellow bishops.
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Mairtin
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saundthorp
Friday, 3. July 2009, 18:02
You make it sound as if there is some sort of hierachy of desent in the Church.
Of course there is - unless you want to argue that thinking there is nothing wrong with missing Mass an odd Sunday is as serious as thinking abortion is okay.
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saundthorp

Mairtin
Friday, 3. July 2009, 19:01
saundthorp
Friday, 3. July 2009, 18:02
You make it sound as if there is some sort of hierachy of desent in the Church.
Of course there is - unless you want to argue that thinking there is nothing wrong with missing Mass an odd Sunday is as serious as thinking abortion is okay.
Mairtin,
You will probably find a Catholic who doesn't have a problem over missing Mass now and again will also think abortion is justified under certain circumstances. Dissent doesn't come in ones!
A careless approach to Mass attendance is probably the tip of an iceberg of dissent.
Edited by saundthorp, Friday, 3. July 2009, 20:32.
Truth is still the truth even if no one believes it. Error is still error even if everyone believes it.
(Archbishop Fulton Sheen)
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You can find too Catholics who wouldn't dream of missing Mass but who think that abortion in certain very grave circumstances is the lesser of two evils.


John
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