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Vatican Support For Bishop O'Donoghue's Initiative; Schools "Fit for Mission" programme
Topic Started: Monday, 31. December 2007, 18:03 (1,414 Views)
Deleted User
Deleted User

The initiative is indeed doomed to failure Joseph because it is a timid orthodox affair completely out of touch with Catholicism. We need more courage from our leaders. As for Father Finnigan, God be good to him, but anyone heading their blog with the word hermaneutics or whatever just demonstrates the yawning gulf between supposed guardians of the Faith and real down to earth Catholicism. I'm afraid he puts himself with the modern-day Pharisees who cling to a narrow rule-ridden interpretation of our gloriously outgoing Faith.

John
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Joseph

John, I'm afraid you obviously haven't taken the time or trouble to get to know Fr Finigan, but that is your loss I'm afraid.

And to accuse bishop O'Donaghue of timidity in demanding that we stop the rot and address in our schools and in our parishes the true Teachings of the Church, just demonstrates a complete failure to see what is really happening in Our Church today.

If we all follow your example John ours really will be seen as an 'outgoing' faith, and maybe much sooner than we think too! :(

Joseph
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PJD

"The initiative is indeed doomed to failure Joseph because it is a timid orthodox affair completely out of touch with Catholicism. We need more courage from our leaders. As for Father Finnigan, God be good to him, but anyone heading their blog with the word hermaneutics or whatever just demonstrates the yawning gulf between supposed guardians of the Faith and real down to earth Catholicism. I'm afraid he puts himself with the modern-day Pharisees who cling to a narrow rule-ridden interpretation of our gloriously outgoing Faith."

Bit harsh John (smile).

But I would have the opposite grip, if I can put it as crudely as that. The only time I looked at this blog I turned away fairly quickly (after all I'm on lp a minute). Reason was because his preferred theologian is Duns Scotis - but nothing about Scotis there at all. Disappointing that.

Ah well...

PJD
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Deleted User
Deleted User

On reflection, PJD, you are right and I spoke or at least typed intemperately. Apologies. I do think though that this type of blog is aimed at people who regard themselves as "true" Catholics and I do believe that this type of elitism is dangerous.
John
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
John Sweeney
Jan 10 2008, 10:24 PM
The initiative is indeed doomed to failure Joseph because it is a timid orthodox affair completely out of touch with Catholicism.

John,

Catholicism is not what you say it is!

:P
S.A.G.

Motes 'n' Beams blog

Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz!
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PJD

"I do believe that this type of elitism is dangerous"

I don't think it is real elitism; you can't get near true elitism - they have a sort of force barrier around themselves.

No I think another word is applicable; but I can't think of it. Ambition perhaps??

PJD
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Joseph

Not Ambition PJD, surely? Nor Elitism either.

I think in the way John used it, he is referring more to Confidence.
A confidence derived from Tradition and the Teachings of the Church
rather than from inadequately informed consciences, maybe?
Joseph
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Deleted User
Deleted User

Ah Joseph, dangerous territory to get into, judging whose conscience is fully formed and whose it not. Major danger is that we assume our own conscience formation is the yardstick.
John
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Joseph

In general terms, I doubt if any of us ever can have a 'fully formed' conscience - there is always more to learn throughout life, and some of what we learn can affect and further inform our consciences perhaps without us realising it.

"John Sweeney"
 
...Major danger is that we assume our own conscience formation is the yardstick.

That could indeed be a danger John, but with regard to the Catholic faith we have more than adequate, reliable, indisputable documentation and teachings from which to form it - so no assumptions are needed, and therefore there is not (or should not be) any difficulty at all in that respect.

In other words, we simply cannot use 'conscience' as an excuse for not accepting the teachings of the Church.
Joseph
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PJD

Well Joseph I suppose it best charity to give the benefit of the doubt. However to...

Quote Fr.Finigan:

it is likely that much of the most serious trouble will come from people within the Catholic education system itself: senior staff, governors and officials who will be outraged that the Church should suggest that they actually follow the teaching of the Catechism

I am not sure about that. From what we can gather of the attitude of ‘religious civil-servants’ this will not bother them as long as failure to co-operate will not lead to their dismissal. However it is not so much a question of good intention as one of competence. Cynical I know, but that’s how things seem to pan out nowadays. And if the good Bishop was so appalled by the results of his investigation into school teaching, his reference to a ‘mountain to climb’ cannot exclude such factors. And it seems to me that there are similarities here with the nature of problems encountered within parish practice, administration, green cardigan ladies, etc.

Other quotes:

Thanks for the reference to Fr Finnigan's blog. I did read it and tried to approach it with an open mind. I found it a very depressing, spiritually- dead read, I'm afraid.
It is the same with Bishop O'Donoughue's message to schools. I find it a bit of a cowardly cop-out. We can all spout out diktats based on supposed certainties. I look for much more from a bishop than that. Surely as a trained man he should be interpreting teaching for us and relating it sensibly and sensibly to modern life to help guide us through its terrible complexity. What is the point of bishops if all they can do is re-issue "rules" as if we were all at spiritual kindergarten? [John]

Having said that, I do fault many of our bishops for the fact that so many Catholics truly do remain in a spiritual kindergarten; they've been taught using programs the bishops foisted on us, and by teachers the bishops had trained. [Lilo]


I feel we really must be sympathetic to these two viewpoints. For myself I have looked through the document (not read every sentence mind), and there is one point of principle I would naturally raise in connection with the ‘Fit for Mission’ document – and that refers to its mention/development of the 8th Commandment (i.e. lying); which is virtually nil. Similarly for the other commandments e.g. stealing etc. Plenty of the 6th and 9th – in fact pages of it.

Alternative life styles are obviously offences against those Commandments; but they are also ‘lies’. As similarly is the advertising of deviant behaviours impressed upon children; they are thefts against their innocence.

The primary offence of Adam and Eve was that of pride. But as Our Blessed Lord confirmed; the devil came first – a liar from the beginning!.

PJD
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Joseph

PJD
Jan 13 2008, 08:42 PM
... For myself I have looked through the document (not read every sentence mind), and there is one point of principle I would naturally raise in connection with the ‘Fit for Mission’ document – and that refers to its mention/development of the 8th Commandment (i.e. lying); which is virtually nil. Similarly for the other commandments e.g. stealing etc. Plenty of the 6th and 9th – in fact pages of it.

Alternative life styles are obviously offences against those Commandments; but they are also ‘lies’. As similarly is the advertising of deviant behaviours impressed upon children; they are thefts against their innocence.

The primary offence of Adam and Eve was that of pride. But as Our Blessed Lord confirmed; the devil came first – a liar from the beginning!.

PJD

I am sure bishop O'Donoughue would welcome your comments PJD - especially at this early discussion stage of procedures - why not send them to him?

Joseph
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PJD


Anononymity might be lost Joseph.

PJD
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Joseph

Would that be serious PJD?

I'm sure it could easily be preserved though.
Joseph
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PJD


Yes Joseph. I did find a way to change a documents details. Tricky - by pasting onto another computor.

However in the end found it really wasn't worth the trouble, apart from just a little little bit of deceit being involved.

It would have to be really really important for me, and this subject doesn't fit the bill. Apart from that advisors would intercept any E mail probably before it got to a bishop. But I may be wrong; just careful.

PJD
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Joseph

WoW! PJD.

I never suspected that such manoeuvers would be needed just to post a suggestion or two for the bishop's attention.

It's a shame really, for I'm sure he'd have appreciated it.
Joseph
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