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Vatican Support For Bishop O'Donoghue's Initiative; Schools "Fit for Mission" programme
Topic Started: Monday, 31. December 2007, 18:03 (1,415 Views)
Rose of York
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Joseph
Jan 3 2008, 03:49 PM
I believe Bishop O'Donoghue's Fit For Mission initiative is the most positive and promising move we have had in our local Church for many years.

Joseph at first glance this looks really good. You are fortunate to have a bishop who gets his priorities right, and does not feed his flock with mush.
Keep the Faith!

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Fr Finigan has taken up the story on his blog.
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The Observer reports (MPs challenge 'doctrinaire' bishops):

 
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Barry Sheerman, chairman of the parliamentary cross-party committee on children, schools and families, said he had heard of other cases and felt that behind the scenes there was 'intense turmoil' about the future of Catholic education. 'A group of bishops appear to be taking a much firmer line and I think it would be useful to call representatives of the Catholic church in front of the committee to find out what is going on,' he said. 'It seems to me that faith education works all right as long as people are not that serious about their faith. But as soon as there is a more doctrinaire attitude questions have to be asked. It does become worrying when you get a new push from more fundamentalist bishops. This is taxpayers' money after all.'


It is an amazing admission on the part of a senior parliamentary figure that he thinks that it is all right to have "faith schools" as long as people are "not that serious about their faith." It is no surprise to find this but it is a surprise to see it stated so baldly. It seems as though everyone just assumes that Catholic schools are not going to be all that serious about their faith. It is ludicrous to characterise Bishop O'Donoghue as a "fundamentalist" but clearly anyone who takes the Catholic faith seriously is considered to be such.

The National Secular Society goes further and calls the mild-mannered bishop's perfectly balanced and sensible approach to Catholic education "a Taliban-style regime of Catholic orthodoxy". (NSS - Religion in schools – long overdue for a radical rethink) It was the NSS which first gave the story to the Observer and they seem to feel that they have Ed Balls in their circle of influence:

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  It is time for Ed Balls to do what other education ministers have not had the guts to do – tell the Archbishops and the bishops that their time is up in schools.


It seems that they may be right in their assessment of the Schools Secretary as we see from this sinister snippet:

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Asked about his opinion on faith schools, Mr Balls said they were being monitored and that measures would be taken if they proved to be "divisive".


To be honest, I am not confident that we will win the battle with the secularists for our schools: we have given in for so long that we no longer have the resources within Catholic Education circles for the fight. As I have suggested, it is likely that much of the most serious trouble will come from people within the Catholic education system itself: senior staff, governors and officials who will be outraged that the Church should suggest that they actually follow the teaching of the Catechism and other documents as "The Truth and Meaning of Human Sexuality". But it is good to see that in at least one diocese the education department will go down fighting.


The Hermeneutic of Continuity

KatyA
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I don't see what the worry is about "faith" schools as far as their continued existence is concerned. This Government has promoted them enthusiastically and the Conservative Opposition has endorsed this stance.

John
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Faith schools are OK, so long as they don't actually teach the Faith ? That would seem to be Mr. Sheerman's view:
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"It seems to me that faith education works all right as long as people are not that serious about their faith. But as soon as there is a more doctrinaire attitude questions have to be asked.

Further details are given in this report from Independent.ie.

KatyA
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Joseph

John Sweeney
Jan 7 2008, 10:35 PM
I don't see what the worry is about "faith" schools as far as their continued existence is concerned. This Government has promoted them enthusiastically and the Conservative Opposition has endorsed this stance.

John

John, take at good look at Fr Finnigan's block on this topic.

http://tinyurl.com/yqj52e

And read a few of the comments there, including such as:-

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...But even if this is Custer’s last stand, at least Bishop O’Donoghue has chosen the right battlefield, namely the nitty-gritty of what the Church teaches – thereby putting us on the front foot, at least when battle is joined...

and
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...Don`t give up, Father. I think we will win this one. Are we really expected to see Mother Teresa and Saddam Hussein in the same light. What we have to do is organise Catholic opinion as is done in America and take it with us to the polling booths. Believe me these politicians will soon back down. I am already sending a copy of the CCC to my MP and asking her to point out all the fundamentalist divisive policies she can find within it. We need to stand up and fight and have the guts to do it...


This initiative could well be offering our Catholic Schools and our Faith a chance to recover before it's too late - and I believe we ignore it at our peril.

Bishop O'Donoghue's document (lengthy though it is) is an amazing and brave attempt to revitalise our faith.


Joseph
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maklavan

I am thinking of taking to my bed a la Florence Nightingale! I have just realised that I am a fundamentalist! The parliamentary spokesman speaks thus, " It does become worrying when you get a new push from more fundamentalist bishops!" Now,since I agree with every word of the bishops,and would would wish more power to their elbows, it looks like that makes me a fundamentalist! I suspect, however, that the word "fundamentalist"was seized on by the journalist in question, as I would be inclined to regard the original statement of the bishop as reflecting basic Catholic teaching, with no fundamentalist smell about it.
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Rose of York
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The Independent
 
The report has outraged non-religious groups, who accused the bishop of trying to "indoctrinate" pupils. In a letter to British Secretary of State Ed Balls, the UK's National Secular Society wrote: "What happened to a well-rounded education -- which is what British state schools are supposed to provide?" Keith Porteous Wood, executive director of the society, said: "I do not think the state should be funding Catholic indoctrination."



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Teachers expressed concern that the bishop's instructions could damage the health of teenagers who chose to become sexually active despite the church's teaching. "Irrespective of the strongly held views of those in the Catholic faith, it is absolutely vital for the future of children's wellbeing, health and safety that they receive proper sex education," said Steve Sinnott, general secretary of the UK's National Union of Teachers.


It appears that teaching pupils to obey the Ten Commandments (upon which Common Law was based) is indoctrination, and teaching them to do as they please is not.

What is "proper" sex education? Teaching the pupils to behave themselves, or teaching them that if they don't, there is always a way of avoiding the consequences.
Keep the Faith!

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Joseph
Thanks for the reference to Fr Finnigan's blog. I did read it and tried to approach it with an open mind. I found it a very depressing, spiritually- dead read, I'm afraid.

It is the same with Bishop O'Donoughue's message to schools. I find it a bit of a cowardly cop-out. We can all spout out diktats based on supposed certainties. I look for much more from a bishop than that. Surely as a trained man he should be interpreting teaching for us and relating it sensibly and sensibly to modern life to help guide us through its terrible complexity. What is the point of bishops if all they can do is re-issue "rules" as if we were all at spiritual kindergarten?

John
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Lilo
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John Sweeney
Jan 8 2008, 01:09 PM
What is the point of bishops if all they can do is re-issue "rules" as if we were all at spiritual kindergarten?


What if that's the impression his flock has made on the man?

I quite like your term, "spiritual kindergarten," and will likely be using it in the future.

Having said that, I do fault many of our bishops for the fact that so many Catholics truly do remain in a spiritual kindergarten; they've been taught using programs the bishops foisted on us, and by teachers the bishops had trained.

Sheer human laziness is a contributing factor, but first people have to know enough to understand that there's much they don't know.

I know many young Catholics who, through no fault of their own, are too ignorant of the faith to know that they're ignorant.

Sounds like spiritual kindergarten to me.



The root problem in a lot of bad catechesis is ultimately not ignorance, but pride. ~ Mark Shea

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Gerard

I think the writer of the non-letter to the non-Hebrews made similar complaints

:rofl:

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Lilo
You are right, probably we are all in spiritual kindergarten and I was being a little presumptious in my earlier post.

I do think though that bishops owe us more than pious "certainties".

john
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
maklavan
Jan 8 2008, 12:35 PM
...I have just realised that I am a fundamentalist! The parliamentary spokesman speaks thus, " It does become worrying when you get a new push from more fundamentalist bishops!" Now,since I agree with every word of the bishops,and would would wish more power to their elbows, it looks like that makes me a fundamentalist! I suspect, however, that the word "fundamentalist"was seized on by the journalist in question, as I would be inclined to regard the original statement of the bishop as reflecting basic Catholic teaching, with no fundamentalist smell about it.

It feels good, doesn't it Mak?! B)

:wh:
S.A.G.

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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
John Sweeney
Jan 8 2008, 09:58 PM
I do think though that bishops owe us more than pious "certainties".

No, John. You think they owe us less than "pious certainties"!

S.A.G.

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Gerard
Jan 8 2008, 08:25 PM
I think the writer of the non-letter to the non-Hebrews made similar complaints

:rofl:

Gerry

The subsequent discussion on the letter to the Hebrews has been moved Here
This is to avoid a very interesting discussion getting lost in a thread about faith in schools

KatyA
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Joseph

John Sweeney
Jan 8 2008, 08:09 PM
Joseph
Thanks for the reference to Fr Finnigan's blog. I did read it and tried to approach it with an open mind. I found it a very depressing, spiritually- dead read, I'm afraid.

It is the same with Bishop O'Donoughue's message to schools. I find it a bit of a cowardly cop-out...



John Sweeney
Jan 8 2008, 08:09 PM
...We can all spout out diktats based on supposed certainties.

Those diktats and 'supposed certainties' are the tenets of our faith, as fully explained in the Catechism of The Catholic Church - which we are all (if we aspire to be practising Catholics) required to accept and follow, but which the vast majority of 'modern' Catholics in the West seem to conveniently ignore when they conflict with their preferred 'life style'. As a consequence of which, they have been happy to raise their children with the same mind set and have been relaxed about letting the teachings in Catholic Schools follow suit.

It is that which has 'fired-up' the good bishop to do something about it ASAP.

John Sweeney
Jan 8 2008, 08:09 PM
...I look for much more from a bishop than that. Surely as a trained man he should be interpreting teaching for us and relating it sensibly and sensibly to modern life to help guide us through its terrible complexity. What is the point of bishops if all they can do is re-issue "rules" as if we were all at spiritual kindergarten?

It is questionable if those not prepared to accept the Teachings of the Church and the CCC have even reached the level to qualify for admittance to a 'spiritual kindergarten' for to do so would demand willingness to accept and believe in what should be being taught there - but are they ready for such a commitment?

I doubt it, and so does Fr Finigan - that's why we see the initiative doomed to failure due to lethargy and lack of active support all round, from the hierarchy, clergy, teachers and layity in general.

The true Catholic Faith is deemed too hard to follow, so we adapt it to suit ourselves and then wonder why it is failing!
Joseph
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