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| Study Our Faith Deeply, Or Keep It Simple? | |
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| Topic Started: Sunday, 16. December 2007, 01:27 (320 Views) | |
| Rose of York | Sunday, 16. December 2007, 01:27 Post #1 |
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The posting quoted above is copies from the Spe Salvi discussion. I find most Vatican documents quite hard to follow. Whilst I accept that we are duty bound to be well acquainted with the teaching of the Catholic Church, I think there is a danger that some forums give the impression everyone needs to study Catholicism at a deep intellectual level. That is up to the individual. The level that suits one person might not suit another, and I am not being patronising about some being clever than others. A lot of us are content with a simple faith, and knowledge of the basics of Catholic teaching. I confess: A few years ago when I first registered on a Catholic forum, a member kept mentioning a document that appears to be mainly for the guidance of clergy. My initial reaction was "this is a lay person, why on earth would we ordinary pew warmers want to concern ourselves with that stuff, let alone talk about it?" I once had cause to read it, and since them must have quoted from it at least a dozen times. :D I wish we had a very brief catechism, on similar lines to the old pre Vatican II Penny Cathechism with Explanations, and I would like to have available, from the bishops here or from the Vatican, simple precis of encyclicals. |
  Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards | |
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| Derekap | Sunday, 16. December 2007, 16:02 Post #2 |
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I think one of the problems is that we read translations and in translating such documents the translator feels he/she must express them in a certain manner not forgetting to include a word or two few of us have come across before in our lives. Perhaps they are a little too literal sometimes. As I have written before, the literal translation of the French phrase: "Ça va" means "that goes" in English but in fact has a number of other meanings in English. This is also why I am not a supporter of a more literal translation of Latin for Holy Mass. |
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| Clare | Sunday, 16. December 2007, 16:18 Post #3 |
Wacko Schismatic Traditionalist Woman
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That fits with "How goes it?" or "How's it going?" |
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S.A.G. My attempt at a blog. | |
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| Rose of York | Sunday, 16. December 2007, 17:39 Post #4 |
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They need to be literal, so bishops throughout the world are all getting the same meaning. Bishops and clergy then have the responsibility of passing the messages to their people. There is no reason why every Catholic in the world should feel the need to read every document emanating from the Vatican. |
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Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards | |
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| nelly k | Sunday, 16. December 2007, 19:43 Post #5 |
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Well, I saw the Spe Salvi topic, and I am afraid I was just put of completly I am not sure that it is about being "simple". It would be great to have the time and enthusiasim to read such documents, but that is not for me, however it was usefull to read all the various comments and links and I understand its about hope and the fact that what God offers is much greater than the secular, non beliver or downright athiest. Why the Church produces such documents is because they have to explian themselves, now if you have faith there may be no great need for such elaborate and accademic documents but the Church and the very basic teaching of Hope are under constant threat from those who wish to undermine the Philosophy of our faith and our Church, so to a degree I agree with John that these documents can be such a turn of for Catholics with little life or meaning but its needed, its a statement to others who wish to challenge our Church our beliefs. nelly |
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| JRJ | Sunday, 16. December 2007, 20:06 Post #6 |
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I read Jesus of Nazareth and found it deep but understandable a bit at a time. I read over each section twice. Certainly Papa Beni is easier to follow than John Paul the Great, at least for me. But I digress! My point for the thread is this: What a fantastic, amazing Church we have! One may read simpler guides, e.g., The Catechism of the Catholic Church or the Compendium of it or even just memorize the Nicene Creed, Ten Commandments and Precepts of the Church and read the Sunday Mass readings each week OR one may delve as deeply as they have the time and inclination to study. There are so many approaches! And the Faith can be explained and be fruitful for a three-year old or centenarian. For a person of very high IQ or very low IQ. For men or women. All races. All vocations. All occupations... Jesus left us a Church that holds a treasure trove of learning for all people. Jennifer Jaeger |
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Jennifer hubby's dinosaur blog | |
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| KatyA | Sunday, 16. December 2007, 20:09 Post #7 |
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The encyclical is addressed to us, so we should at least hear a précis in Church or in the newsletter. I can't say I've heard much about it apart from the Bishops' site and forum. Pope Benedict is a wonderful teacher, and this encyclical really is quite readable KatyA |
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| Derekap | Sunday, 16. December 2007, 20:29 Post #8 |
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Clare, Ça va Can be A Greeting as one passes by in the street How are you? I am well! Is it OK with you? (After a suggestion given) Do you agree? Is it working now? Yes it's working now! and probably more. |
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| Derekap | Sunday, 16. December 2007, 20:39 Post #9 |
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Rose wrote: "They need to be literal," A true translation is how we in English (or whatever language) would express what a statement in a foreign language means. A literal translation into other languages of a phrase popular at one time "You've had it!" or today's popular phrases: "It's cool" or: "It's wicked" could cause problems. I know these may not be good examples but I hope they help to prove my point. |
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| Clare | Sunday, 16. December 2007, 21:14 Post #10 |
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Wacko Schismatic Traditionalist Woman
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Or, "How's it going?" :) |
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S.A.G. My attempt at a blog. | |
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| Quicunque vult | Sunday, 16. December 2007, 21:35 Post #11 |
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JRJ wrote:
Jennifer I so much agree with you! The Catholic Church is the greatest treasure on earth. The Church is a repository of the good, the true and the beautiful. Let us celebrate our Faith, and preserve our beautiful traditions. As our wonderful Holy Father, Pope Benedict, has said, it is saints and the beauty of the Church's art that will bring people back to Christ. QV |
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| Lilo | Monday, 17. December 2007, 14:33 Post #12 |
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I have looked at this several times. On the surface I have no issues with the statement. However, there comes the question of where we draw the line between that deep intellectual level and the simple faith and knowledge. It's been my experience that too many of my fellow-Catholics have a very cavalier attitude toward keeping their faith at even a pretty basic academic level. They don't blink an eye at years of study in the secular field of their choice, but leave their religious education at not much more than a Grade 3 level and bristle at the suggestion that this isn't acceptable. And let's face it, with today's catechesis, that Grade 3 level likely means they haven't learned even basic Catholicism. Try to get them to read something as relatively simple as a Vatican release on some current topic or even the encyclical, Spe Salvi, and the reactions tend to be downright hostile. But it's no better if you suggest they read anything spiritual. Unless it's feel-good, chicken soup for the soul kind of stuff, forget it. I produce the church bulletin for our local parish – three parishes, actually, since our priest has to travel to a couple others – and space permitting, short excerpts from papal and other spiritual writings find their way into the bulletin. Ideally, this would whet appetites and get them to read the whole thing . . . . While there isn't a lot of feedback, what I do get shows me that those parishioners with solid prayer lives and an intense love for the Church will work their way through such material. But others – including parishioners with university degrees – largely can't be bothered. One lady has been reading Pope Benedict's Jesus of Nazareth since it became available and has only now finished. She admitted that it was a struggle for her. But she was determined to read it and did. Perhaps the Pope made some points in the book that neither she nor I completely understood, especially not at the depth that he does, but we still benefitted greatly from it. Ultimately – and I'm speaking of local, real-life experiences here, not members of the forum – those who already have the basics are likely to want to know more. But many who are woefully ignorant, while convinced that they have the basics, resent any effort to upgrade their Catholic skills. What "information" or "news" they pick up about Catholicism comes from the MSM, and we all know how accurate that's likely to be. Yet any effort to correct their misconceptions meets with resentment, pure and simple. |
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The root problem in a lot of bad catechesis is ultimately not ignorance, but pride. ~ Mark Shea
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| Rose of York | Monday, 17. December 2007, 17:38 Post #13 |
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QV I agree with all that you say, but I have come across people, on forums, who feel guilty, inadequate and inferior, because they have not studied documents they are not mentally equipped to study. It would please me if all Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion, and members of Parish Pastoral Councils had to study Redemptionis Sacramentum. I am weary of laity who cannot understand why their priests will not let laity hold services they are not allowed to hold. Persons should not be appointed as catechisists until they can demonstrate a required level of knowledge. |
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Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards | |
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| Gerard | Monday, 17. December 2007, 18:38 Post #14 |
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What services do the laity want to hold that they are not allowed to hold Rose? |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Ned | Monday, 17. December 2007, 21:43 Post #15 |
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Hi Jennifer, You have just given me the excuse to slip in a mention of the Catholic Truth Society (that is to say the one in London) and their wide range of publications. Their website is at: http://www.cts-online.org.uk/CTS_Publications.htm Their publications include the Bible, and some individual books of the Bible: the Psalms, each of the four Gospels, Acts and the letters of Saint Paul. The details are at: http://www.cts-online.org.uk/Gospels.htm All these publications, which are very reasonably priced, use the Jerusalem translation and the typeface is excellent; very clear and readable. We must not forget the Sacred Scriptures, the inspired Word of God. I must confess to you all, my brothers and sisters, that my own knowledge of the bible is shameful, but I now do what I can to try and remedy that. Regards Ned |
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10:40 AM Nov 25