The Virtue Of Chastity

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The Virtue Of Chastity
Topic Started: Tuesday, 11. December 2007, 10:34 (867 Views)
KatyA	Tuesday, 11. December 2007, 10:34 Post #1
Administrator Posts: 5,408 Group: Admin Member #6 Joined: September 26, 2006	Interesting sermon from the Papal Household preacher Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa, to "help us make Advent a time of conversion and spiritual reawakening." Quote: Today, there is a tendency to oppose sins against purity and sins against our neighbour and it is the sin against our neighbour that is thought to be the real sin; sometimes scorn is cast upon the excessive homage that was paid in the past to the 'beautiful virtue.' "This attitude is in part understandable; the morality of the past emphasized too unilaterally the sins of the flesh, to the point sometimes of creating real neuroses at the expense of attention to our neighbor and at the expense of the virtue of purity itself which was thus impoverished and reduced to an almost entirely negative virtue, the virtue of knowing how to say no. "The spiritual life is not of course reduced to chastity and purity alone but it is certain that without them every effort in other directions will be impossible. It is truly, as Paul says in the text we cited, 'armour of light': a condition for the light of Christ to radiate about us and through us. "Now, however, we have gone to the other extreme and there is a tendency to minimize sins against purity to the advantage (often only in theory) of attention to our neighbour." Full text Zenit Coincidentally (??) Cardinal Cordes had a similar theme for his address at the opening of the Lourdes celebrations CNA KatyA



John Sweeney	Tuesday, 11. December 2007, 20:44 Post #2
Posts: 1,844 Group: Members Member #68 Joined: March 20, 2007	Very reasonable contribution by Fr Cantalamessa Katy , thanks for posting. Personally, I am uneasy about any attempt to equate sins against purity with real offences against people but at least the point he makes is made cleverly and in a measured fashion. John



Rose of York	Tuesday, 11. December 2007, 21:09 Post #3
Administrator Posts: 14,540 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	Sins against purity ARE offences against other people. Commit adultery, spouses and children are hurt and society pays the price, supporting one or other party in the marriage if it ends in divorce. Dress immodestly, tempt another person to sin, perhaps with another person, and again people are hurt. There used to be too much attention paid to sexual sin, at the expense of concerns about other sins. At school we learnt all about sin against marriage; adultery, birth control, and of course abortion. Nothing was said about domestic violence, financial neglect, denial of companionship to the spouse, or failure to pull one's weight in the home. The pendulum has swung. It is years, possibly decades, since I heard any priest mention sins against purity.
	$Posted Image$ Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards


Lilo	Tuesday, 11. December 2007, 21:45 Post #4
Posts: 743 Group: Members Member #109 Joined: December 3, 2007	Sins against purity are sins against God, others, and ourselves. We need only think of the clergy scandals exposed over the last years; the incredible scourge of on-line porn, and the sheer quantity of sexual depravity that characterizes our books, magazines, movies and television programs. An old tale comes to mind: . . . the model the great artist Leonardo da Vinci used for the figure of Jesus Christ in his painting "The Last Supper" was a young man of exceptional beauty, whose countenance expressed innocence and purity in a remarkable degree. Some years after, when Leonardo da Vinci was ready to draw the figure of Judas the traitorous Apostle, he had a difficult time trying to find a model. So he went into the most disreputable haunts of the city, in the places where the worst criminals congregated, to seek a suitable model. He saw all sorts of criminals, immoral men altogether lost to all sense of decency, but still he was not satisfied. At last one day he espied a wreck of a man, slinking in a corner of a low resort. His face had an expression so vicious and diabolical that the artist knew his search for a model for Judas was ended. Going near, he prevailed upon the fellow, with the offer of a great sum of money, to sit as a model. The series of sittings was about to end, when one day Leonardo da Vinci said: "You know, since you came, I have always had a feeling that I have seen you somewhere before. I must be wrong, but the feeling persists." Thereupon the man in an outburst of despair cried, "Yes, you have seen me before! I was the innocent young man who sat as a model for the figure of Christ there. And now, see how I am sitting for Judas, for Judas!" . . . . http://www.dailycatholic.org/issue/2001Jan/jan11cat.htm
	The root problem in a lot of bad catechesis is ultimately not ignorance, but pride. ~ Mark Shea


John Sweeney	Wednesday, 12. December 2007, 21:16 Post #5
Posts: 1,844 Group: Members Member #68 Joined: March 20, 2007	Rose The reason priests don't preach about purity is because they see every day that the world has moved on and that the Catholic people have moved with it. As always, the official Church takes a time to catch up but in reality the Church in the field has accepted that teaching has changed. Look at any Catholic congregation at Mass. It is likely to include a couple of divorced people, some of whom will be in new relationships. There will be many, probably a big majority, of people in what we in the West now call traditional families but they are likely to have sons, daughters, nieces and nephews living with partners and living happy, fulfilled and constructive lives. Almost everyone will have grandchildren, nieces and nephews born to those "co-habiting" couples who are loved as much as those children born to married parents. There may well be a hom osex ual couple or two. Many of these people will receive Communion because they do not regard their conduct as sinful. No great scandal is caused because Most Catholics tacitly accept that this is how society is now and they can see that no harm comes from it. Most priests that I have spoken to think the same as their parishioners. John



Clare	Wednesday, 12. December 2007, 21:52 Post #6
Wacko Schismatic Traditionalist Woman Posts: 3,092 Group: Members Member #70 Joined: March 27, 2007	John Sweeney Dec 12 2007, 09:16 PM The reason priests don't preach about purity is because they see every day that the world has moved on and that the Catholic people have moved with it. As always, the official Church takes a time to catch up but in reality the Church in the field has accepted that teaching has changed. Look at any Catholic congregation at Mass. It is likely to include a couple of divorced people, some of whom will be in new relationships. There will be many, probably a big majority, of people in what we in the West now call traditional families but they are likely to have sons, daughters, nieces and nephews living with partners and living happy, fulfilled and constructive lives. Almost everyone will have grandchildren, nieces and nephews born to those "co-habiting" couples who are loved as much as those children born to married parents. There may well be a hom osex ual couple or two. Many of these people will receive Communion because they do not regard their conduct as sinful. No great scandal is caused because Most Catholics tacitly accept that this is how society is now and they can see that no harm comes from it. Most priests that I have spoken to think the same as their parishioners. John, How does the fact that most people are doing something make it right? Society has to catch up with the Church. The Church is way ahead of the world, always has been. More likely, the reason most priests do not preach about purity is probably because they are afraid of offending their congregations with the truth. Perhaps, if they'd nipped it in the bud a few decades ago, there would not be so many Catholics today living in irregular situations.
	S.A.G. My attempt at a blog.


Clare	Wednesday, 12. December 2007, 21:55 Post #7
Wacko Schismatic Traditionalist Woman Posts: 3,092 Group: Members Member #70 Joined: March 27, 2007	Worth recalling the words of Our Lady of Fatima: Quote: More souls go to Hell because of the sins of the flesh than for any other reason. That's not because sins of the flesh are "worse" (they aren't), rather it's because more people commit them. As John Sweeney's post demonstrates. Being in the majority never saved anyone.
	S.A.G. My attempt at a blog.


Rose of York	Wednesday, 12. December 2007, 22:09 Post #8
Administrator Posts: 14,540 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	John Sweeney Dec 12 2007, 09:16 PM Rose The reason priests don't preach about purity is because they see every day that the world has moved on and that the Catholic people have moved with it. Sure, the world has moved on. Abortion is legal, and it is rife. Is it time the Catholic Church caught up with society? Under age sex is on the increase. The Government could assess the situation, say it is obvious youngsters are maturing earlier, and lower the age of consent. Then the Catholic Church could "catch up". It is only a matter of time before any adult will be legally permitted to have sexual intercourse with a ten year old, or a relative, in the interests of "accepting diversity". The priests don't preach about sexual morality because they don't want to be unpopular. John, there is no reason why the people you mention should not be at Mass, just as fraudsters, burglars, muggers and other people (like you and me) are entitled to attend. Jesus never turned away a sinner, He was compassionate and forgiving - and becaue He loved them and cared about their souls, H told them to stop sinning.
	$Posted Image$ Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards


Clare	Wednesday, 12. December 2007, 22:12 Post #9
Wacko Schismatic Traditionalist Woman Posts: 3,092 Group: Members Member #70 Joined: March 27, 2007	Rose of York Dec 12 2007, 10:09 PM John, there is no reason why the people you mention should not be at Mass, just as fraudsters, burglars, muggers and other people (like you and me) are entitled to attend. Jesus never turned away a sinner, He was compassionate and forgiving - and becaue He loved them and cared about their souls, H told them to stop sinning. Quite. He didn't say, "Whatever you do is fine by me, after all everyone else is doing it, so I'll just change what is and is not sin accordingly."
	S.A.G. My attempt at a blog.


Quicunque vult	Thursday, 13. December 2007, 07:55 Post #10
Posts: 484 Group: Members Member #86 Joined: May 18, 2007	Yes we must teach the whole truth of the Catholic Faith, not just selective bits. Teaching on sexuality is very clear, if you read the Catechism, though not often pronounced from the pulpit. The whole point of Vatican 2 was to enable the Church to communicate the truth more effectively to the modern world. There are those who have turned this on its head in attempting instead to get the Church to accept the increasingly immoral standards of western secular society. The tide will turn, when even wholly secular people will see what a dead end relativism leads to. Will we Catholics then be ready and equipped to lead people back to Christ? QV



Gerard	Thursday, 13. December 2007, 09:40 Post #11
Posts: 3,105 Group: Members Member #12 Joined: September 26, 2006	Quote: More likely, the reason most priests do not preach about purity is probably because they are afraid of offending their congregations with the truth. Quote: The priests don't preach about sexual morality because they don't want to be unpopular. Think harder people - there is a bigger reason closer to home. Gerry
	"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).


Derekap	Thursday, 13. December 2007, 15:39 Post #12
Posts: 3,415 Group: Members Member #14 Joined: September 26, 2006	You appear to be suggesting, John, that The Church should scrap The Ten Commandments because so many are breaking them.
	Derekap


Clare	Thursday, 13. December 2007, 23:25 Post #13
Wacko Schismatic Traditionalist Woman Posts: 3,092 Group: Members Member #70 Joined: March 27, 2007	John Sweeney Dec 13 2007, 11:40 PM I don't think the average congregation at Sunday Mass is harbouring many murderers or thieves. Nor is it harbouring many adulterers or false god worshippers although there are many facile and glib points to be made about these last two categories. I am talking about a large-scale movement of Catholic moral thinking which accepts contraception, co-habitation without a paper certificate, the babies which come from such unions, and is tolerrant of hom osex ual and lesb ian relationships. And which sees no difficulty in people involved in these relationships being fully in communion with the Church. I go further and say that there is not a parish in the UK which could survive without the input from such people. And it is brilliant and life-enhancing to be part of all this!! You've ignored the commandment that forbids adultery, and the one which forbids coveting one's neighbour's wife. Also, remember, Jesus Himself said that someone who divorces and remarries commits adultery. Adultery is condemned by a commandment. It is a mortal sin. And, as for accepting babies born of such irregular relationships. Of course we must. That is neither here nor there. But we must not use them to justify sin. The end does not justify the means. Quote: Clare--the Church always in front of society? I don't think so. To go back to one of your favourites, what about Galileo? I appreciate your point is specific , but when it comes to universal truth , what about Limbo? I know it has had its separate thread but it is worth repeating in this context that this was taught to me as absolute truth and yet now we discover it is in , er , limbo. What about Galileo? He may well have been wrong. And Limbo? The Church has not abolished the doctrine. I'm still inclined to believe in it. All of this, in the fullness of time, will go to prove that the Church was way ahead of the world. At the moment, it looks to "worldly sophisticated enlightened" types that the Church is behind. However, we'll see eventually that it is the so called enlightened ones who were mistaken, and following fables. St Paul warned us as much. He said people would turn away from the truth to fables. Not the other way around! Clare.
	S.A.G. My attempt at a blog.


Rose of York	Thursday, 13. December 2007, 23:35 Post #14
Administrator Posts: 14,540 Group: Admin Member #2 Joined: September 25, 2006	John the Galileo affair is an old chestnut spread around by people who know little about Catholicism. They use it in their efforts to prove the doctrine of infallibility is false. No Pope ever used the magisterium to say Galileo was wrong. If the Pope's cat is white and he says it's a tabby, he would be wrong. That would have nothing to do with Church doctrine and even the Pope would not regard it as infallible. Clare is right, the Ten Commandments specifically forbid adultery and sexual covetousness. If I did not agree with that I would not see the point in being Christian, let alone Catholic.
	$Posted Image$ Catholic and proud of it! Talk to God before Mass. Talk to each other afterwards


John Sweeney	Thursday, 13. December 2007, 23:40 Post #15
Posts: 1,844 Group: Members Member #68 Joined: March 20, 2007	I don't think the 10 Commandments should be abandoned Derek. I don't think the average congregation at Sunday Mass is harbouring many murderers or thieves. Nor is it harbouring many adulterers or false god worshippers although there are many facile and glib points to be made about these last two categories. I am talking about a large-scale movement of Catholic moral thinking which accepts contraception, co-habitation without a paper certificate, the babies which come from such unions, and is tolerrant of hom osex ual and lesb ian relationships. And which sees no difficulty in people involved in these relationships being fully in communion with the Church. I go further and say that there is not a parish in the UK which could survive without the input from such people. And it is brilliant and life-enhancing to be part of all this!! Clare--the Church always in front of society? I don't think so. To go back to one of your favourites, what about Galileo? I appreciate your point is specific , but when it comes to universal truth , what about Limbo? I know it has had its separate thread but it is worth repeating in this context that this was taught to me as absolute truth and yet now we discover it is in , er , limbo. John



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