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Passing On Your Faith; to your own children
Topic Started: Tuesday, 13. November 2007, 01:40 (1,461 Views)
Timothy
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Mixed marriages have some bearing on the problem......

There can be tension when in-laws hope the Catholic parent will not "fill the childrens' heads with rubbish" or "ram religion down the kids' throats".


I had not thought of mixed marriages. However the problem still remains for the majority of Children who have two Catholic Parents.
"An adult faith does not follow the waves of fashion and the latest novelty."
"Having a clear faith, according to the credo of the church, is often labelled as fundamentalism."
Pope Benedict XVI
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Deleted User
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I found this old discussion whilst looking for something totally unrelated. The same,or similar question has been raised recently in a couple of other threads so I thought it worthwhile to revive this one in hopes that some of our more recent members can add to it.
KatyA
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Deleted User
Deleted User

:thanks:

just to start the ball rolling again a reminder of the gift that draig shared with us.


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draig Tuesday, 28. April 2009, 23:47 Post #1


I thought I would share this with you all.

Last week I was asked by my young drugget (at bedtime prayers) if The Father, Son & Holy Spirit were all different.

Hmm - first thing, decide if this is a real thirst for knowledge or just the latest in a long line of attempts to put back bedtime.

OK, having decided that drugget was really interested in this, the second thing is PANIC! How do you talk about The Trinity in such a way that an infant can accept?

I explained that all three were different but were all parts of the same God. Good theology, but only getting a glazed look from drugget. Help!

I then got a bit of Divine inspiration and told drugget that Father, Son and Holy Spirit were different jobs for God to do for people, explaining that it was like me, for some people I do different jobs - I am Daddy to him but 'Husband to Mummy, Brother to Uncle D, Uncle to N and at work I am draig.

He seemed to think about this a bit so I then pointed out that 'drugget is my son, nephew to Uncle D, cousin to N and friend to X, Y & Z at school. You do all of these jobs but you are only a single drugget'.

Result, one happy drugget. I don't know if he understood what I was getting at or if he was just happy that I included him in my answer, but he did say his prayers and go to sleep (eventually!).

I don't know about accepting the kingdom of God like a child, but it is definately difficult to try and explain it to a child!


Does Draig's explanation tell drugget any more facts about the Trinity, no. Does this explanation of the Trinity pass theological scrutiny, probably not. Does this explanation help drugget remain interested in his faith, yes. In other words sometimes we have to be careful to acknowledge that what we say is an expression of faith and not statement of fact.
If we encourage people to belief and develop their faith then as they grow we can adapt the information so that in time they will have the full doctrinal account of what the church understands the trinity to be and what it is not. The problem is if we loose their interest at drugget’s age or in the enquiry stage then they will never come to the fuller explanation. Jesus spoke in parables because he wanted his listeners to understand principles and to grasp the Sprit of the Gospel; he confined definitive explanations to the select Apostles to whom he confided a fuller account. But all the information , the wisdom of the ages is available to us. There is no hidden knowledge or secret inner truth. There are just differing levels of enquiry and appropriateness of response dependent upon the age and ability of the enquirer.
In the days when most people, including princes and nobles were illiterate the church used illuminated manuscripts, stained Glass windows, icons and statues to help pass on the faith. Today, we are more literate but I wonder is our faith any richer for it?
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PJD




Get the child to love the Eucharist, and the child will love the Mass, and thereafter the teenager will hopefully keep going to the Mass.

PJD
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draig
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PJD
Tuesday, 12. May 2009, 21:12
Get the child to love the Eucharist, and the child will love the Mass, and thereafter the teenager will hopefully keep going to the Mass.

PJD
Great sentiment PJD.

Now, how do you suggest getting the child to love the Eucharist?
Gripe. Moan. Snipe. Ignore any inconvenient truth. Don't provide specific data. Don't, whatever you do, provide links to hard evidence. The Traditional Way To Maintain A Discussion.
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pete

I strongly agree with Rose, mixed marriages can and do play a significant roll. Take my own grandchildren for instance, they told me that their other grandparents don’t believe in God. If this is the case then they should be obliged to keep their anti Christian beliefs to themselves and not distort the minds of grandchildren who look up to us for guidance and direction by setting good examples.
I’ve been kindly asked not to mention Hell to my grandchildren as they find it upsetting, however I am permitted to fill their brains about Father Christmas, tooth fairies and the like. Had my son married into a Catholic family or a good C of E family for that matter it would have been more comfortable spiritual wise. Apart from that I do love my sons in laws very much and I know that we are loved in return.
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PJD

"Now, how do you suggest getting the child to love the Eucharist?"

Now that opens up a long response. (smile)

First things first Draig - all children love a mystery.

PJD
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James
James
I think we have to look to ourselves.
Are our religious duties just that - duties and no more.?
Sense of guilt or good feelings about performing or not performing the duties.
Send the children to the catholic school - why ?
Well it is our duty after all.!

But then faith, hope charity and love are not really duties - they are emotions and should infect others.
It is this infection of an inner emotion that makes the difference.

I must admit it has mostly been 'duty' with me and still is in many ways and that was how it was handed on.
The duty but not the infectiousness.
Now, although older, I am trying to break through this barrier of duty and 'feel' joy in my faith.

I look at football, for instance, and how the sheer love of the games can infect a similar love in the younger generation without the need for lenghty explanations - which would probably fall on deaf ears anyway.

Edited by James, Wednesday, 13. May 2009, 15:48.
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OsullivanB

On the other hand they may find the faith like I find cricket - something excruciatingly boring, exceptionally time-consuming and largely incomprehensible, which I was forced to take part in as a schoolboy, and wish to have nothing to do with ever again.
Edited by OsullivanB, Wednesday, 13. May 2009, 13:10.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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K.T.B.

James
Wednesday, 13. May 2009, 12:52

But then faith, hope charity and love are not really duties - they are emotions and should infect others.
It is this infection of an inner emotion that makes the difference.


Yes, well said, James. Another emotion that children could pick up on, I think, is joy, about the Good News.
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Deleted User
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I disagree. Emotions are transient. volatile and unreliable. Yes it is wonderful when we can feel joy in our faith but I would venture to suggest that there is absolutely nothing wrong if we don't always feel elation.
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James
James
Agree nobody can go around in a perptual state of elation Katy.
But what I am pointing out is that duty of itself may not be sufficient to attract.
Jesus himself was quite critical of those who placed observance of laws and ritual above emotional considerations.
Not all emotions are transient and fleeting - well not type I speak about.

Why do I go to church ?
Is it because I got used to it and it would leave a gap if I didn't go. ?
Is it because I like the ritual ?
Why do I take the children to mass ?
Why do they fall away ?
Is it because of something lacking in me and, like the cricket match Bernard mentioned, it is boring and somehow imposed .
This is why I question myself before blaming society around me.
Perhaps it is me all along .
Have I got the fire within that Christ speaks about ,or, am I merely, like the jews around Christ, to observe and pass on teaching and ritual and yet emotionally unable to light the torch within the souls of others
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PJD

"Perhaps it is me all along .
Have I got the fire within that Christ speaks about ,or, am I merely, like the jews around Christ, to observe and pass on teaching and ritual and yet emotionally unable to light the torch within the souls of others"


You make a natural point James i.e. the tendency to blame one's self. But this will not correct the situation.

The children - I am thinking of those especially in primary catechesis - will obviously become the parents of tomorrow. It is therefore to my mind essential that great attention be paid to instruction within that group. We cannot alter the situation regading their parents - or if we can do so it shouldn't be the top priority - instruction within homilies may be sufficient in that area.

It is my opinion - and only mine - that those who currently catechise should graduall change their approach - an approach that includes new ways of instruction more in line with the century we are living in. And the first step is to humility becoming as it were as children ourselves, learning to love the Eucharist Itself to begin with and trying to pass on the same feelings as best we can in those classrooms.

So although you argued for example "I look at football, for instance, and how the sheer love of the games can infect a similar love in the younger generation without the need for lenghty explanations" - I think you will find that in modern society especially football - everyone concerned does in fact go into lengthy explanations, technicalities, why their team has lost or won, etc. etc. Same sort of thing is required on a lower level as regards what we are speaking of here. So I suggest (smile).

PJD


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James
James
I think, with catechesis, as with sport, that there is a period from a very young age and prior to any instruction - say perhaps 2 years or so - when a child is exposed to the 'feelings' that they are so very good at picking up on. They will then go into instruction in time but with those feelings of exposure providing it was infectious and consistent enough. To go for instruction with no exposure past or present can make it very difficult . It must begin at a very young age prior to sitting down and looking at the nuts and bolts as it were.

I have never gone into the procedures of instructing but from what you suggest, it may not be perfect when you mention that this must gradually change.
Are they already too old at five or six, say, to start from scratch and give exposure because of other influences already at work on their little eyes and ears.


Concerning older children and indeed adults, I may have been overanalysing myself too much and go back to my original views on being consistent in oneself. Change, advise or instruct where you can but remain constant if all appears to be overpowered by other influences.
Regular mass, and the sacraments and observance of duties. I probably would not be doing them if I did not have a love of God in the first place.
But it is surprising how people notice consistency over the years and get a bit curious .
So, if my son sends his daughter to a catholic school but does not go to church himself - then that consistency in me must be rubbing off somewhere - would you think. The point then ,as I mentioned, is it already too late.

PS. about two months ago there was a bit of an argument going on at the back of the church.
It turned out that a man made some remark to a young mother with a child of about a year old, on something the child did which upset him.
The mother exploded at him all in front of the child and a full blown argument ensued in front of the departing congregation and the priest in the porchway.
Nobody got involved and it was as if nothing was happening,
The interesting point is that I have not seen him, her or the child at mass since that day.
Not exactly what you would describe as an infectious or joyful exposure for a young mind not at the stage of explanations !!

On the other hand, some of the ladies run a tea session in the hall after mass and only about a dozen or so of the congration go in there but one or two mothers with little ones of about eighteen months or two years go in. The children have great time running around the hall and getting free biscuits and lemonades or orange juice. The adults are very friendly towards them and they have a great experience.
Unfortunately, only a few go in.!!
Edited by James, Saturday, 16. May 2009, 16:26.
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PJD

"So, if my son sends his daughter to a catholic school but does not go to church himself - then that consistency in me must be rubbing off somewhere - would you think. The point then ,as I mentioned, is it already too late."

You make a very valid observation here James. But I can't compete with bad example. I was assuming a situation of parental good example but lacking the religious nuts and bolts.

As a "figurative" example of what I mean - senior citizens in the congregation may not be familiar with biblical Exodus for example, but that is not to say that their middle aged equivalents going to a religious discussion cannot delive into that book. Either way, neither group fails to remain constant in attending Mass, yet the younger group may even be introduced to biblical exegesis. It is similar for children - for the parents if their child is one of those bringing up the gifts it may simply be that of taking their 'turn' - yet for the children they might even regard it as a 'liturgal action' simply because it has been explained to them as such.

Not the best of figuratives, but the best I can think of whilst typing. (smile).

PJD
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