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| Women Burned Out At 30! | |
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| Topic Started: Friday, 28. September 2007, 13:09 (2,048 Views) | |
| Clare | Wednesday, 3. October 2007, 14:09 Post #106 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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And those things which are now normal never were, and the exception never used to be the exception. Why have things changed? Because of social engineering. The breakdown of the family. Easy divorce. Feminism. The norm today is not the norm overall. The norm today is not God's will for mankind. |
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| Rose of York | Wednesday, 3. October 2007, 14:10 Post #107 |
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Clare you were the one who asked if women had choices in days gone by. For the purposes of this discussion, what happened in the past is irrelevant. I've just thought, if some rotten sod hadn't shut the workhouses the women who want, and in many cases, get, equal pay would not have needed to earn a penny to support their families. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Rose of York | Wednesday, 3. October 2007, 14:14 Post #108 |
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Because most people used to be dead before they were fifty. |
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| K.T.B. | Wednesday, 3. October 2007, 14:58 Post #109 |
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Clare, we are talking here about a basic Christian value, that of justice. It is frankly unjust for any employer to award a different amount of money to any individual doing work of equal value to that of another. |
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| Clare | Wednesday, 3. October 2007, 15:29 Post #110 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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Well, there was that parable about giving the labourer who only worked a short part of the day the same wage as someone who worked all day. Some people get more than perhaps they deserve. As long as noone is getting less than they deserve there's no injustice. There has been social engineering which has forced women out to work, because now many families need two incomes. That is not ideal. It may be reality now. But it is not the ideal. It is a reality that has been engineered to undermine the family and society. And it is succeeding. It's just disappointing to see Catholics pouring scorn on the ideal, and praising the perverted status quo. It's an evil, that we have to put up with. But we don't have to defend it! |
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| Clare | Wednesday, 3. October 2007, 15:31 Post #111 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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Yes, and go back even further and most people lived to be several hundred years old. And then God reduced it to 3 score years and 10. Which is still older than 50. |
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| Rose of York | Wednesday, 3. October 2007, 16:28 Post #112 |
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That explains why the majority of male workers are not financially responsible for dependant children. On Victorian times, life expectancy was lowered by human activity due to industry being very dangerous, bad living conditions, and the new town workers not having land where they could grow food. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Rose of York | Wednesday, 3. October 2007, 16:35 Post #113 |
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Clare, I quote below the comments of working mothers who posted on this discussion. There is no scorn of the ideal. Every one of us wanted to stay at home full time with our children. I hope you do not think we praise the "perverted status quo" as you put it. Karin, who has no children, is married. She has always worked, out of necessity. Mothers whose husbands earn enough to support families, single handed, are the lucky ones. So are their children, having their mothers at home full time. We working mothers suffered emotionally, having to leave our children with other people so we could earn a crust.
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| Mrs Jamie | Wednesday, 3. October 2007, 17:27 Post #114 |
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I'm sorry but I don't actually see the relevance of either of these points; the fact that in the past people had little or no choice about their employment is something to be deplored, not something to which we should aspire. |
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| Mrs Jamie | Wednesday, 3. October 2007, 17:38 Post #115 |
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Yes. But they didn't have "career choices" as we now know them. Neither did most men. [/QUOTE] I think we have now come the nub of Clare's argument. If you are "forced" into employment which is poorly paid and uncongenial that is okay, If you are fortunate enough to find enjoyable and fulfilling work for fair recompense, that is "against God's ideal". So it is okay to be sent down mines, up chimneys or to work in a brothel - or anywhere else where you will be thoroughly miserable. But find yourself a "profession" and you are failing as a woman and a mother. Bizarre! (Now Rose - remind me how the parable of the talents went......) |
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| Rose of York | Wednesday, 3. October 2007, 18:26 Post #116 |
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No Mrs Jamie, I put your points and you put yours. A mother makes excellent use of her talents, teaching her children. The journalist is off to a flying start, helping her children to express themselves well. A mother who looks after the garden can show her children the wonders of God's creation, by explaining how plants develop, and demonstrating the interdependence of flora and fauna. Staying at home to care for children does not have to result in wasting talents and/or education. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| PJD | Wednesday, 3. October 2007, 20:46 Post #117 |
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“It is a reality that has been engineered to undermine the family and society” Rather Clare to boost Company profits – the family just got in the way. Mothers do suffer emotionally as a result. Years ago, when there were a reasonable amount of jobs around, men worked full time and made up for any shortfall by doing overtime usually on Sat. mornings. Wives with children generally did not have to go out to work. The system worked; but you had to save up or borrow to get a Hoover twin tub etc – or you had to wait! Today advertisement means waiting is a greater pain and against ‘the Joans’s’; and so we go on - with children having to keep up with their own child Joans’s. My grandchildren sometimes a party [and always a gift to buy] about once every fortnight. Sad all of this. And now they (or an American) is talking about retirement age being substantially well over 65 – smokers are living too long and draining the pension funds whilst the obese are not living long enough and surviving to pay work their share of years (joke). PJD |
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| Clare | Wednesday, 3. October 2007, 21:34 Post #118 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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No, Mrs J. That is a caricature. It's not what I meant at all. My point was that women have choices, and act as if they're something men always had, whereas most men didn't. This men v women dichotomy is false. It's more a rich v poor thing. And women generally only want the nice jobs men do. Nice jobs are "careers". And it only seems to be fulfilling and rewarding jobs that women are interested in. The men can have the rest! Clare. |
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| Clare | Wednesday, 3. October 2007, 21:37 Post #119 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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Quite. There are some traditionalists who think that girls shouldn't have a university education. They also think mothers should home-school. Something for which a university education would be quite advantageous, I would have thought! I don't have one though. |
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| Clare | Wednesday, 3. October 2007, 21:39 Post #120 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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The point is that modern women are aspiring to something most men never had! As if there had been this unfairness: Men have career choices, why can't we? Well. Most men didn't. |
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3:43 PM Jul 11