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Women Burned Out At 30!
Topic Started: Friday, 28. September 2007, 13:09 (2,049 Views)
Mrs Jamie

Clare
Oct 2 2007, 11:02 PM

I would be happy for a man with equivalent or more experience than I, to be paid more. As long as I was paid enough!

So if you, as a woman, are to be paid "enough" then you are suggesting by implication that male employees should be paid "too much".

Why?
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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Mrs Jamie
Oct 3 2007, 09:15 AM
Clare
Oct 2 2007, 11:02 PM

I would be happy for a man with equivalent or more experience than I, to be paid more. As long as I was paid enough!

So if you, as a woman, are to be paid "enough" then you are suggesting by implication that male employees should be paid "too much".

Why?

No.

A slightly greater salary might be what the man needs, and is enough for him. My salary might be enough for me, but not for him.

I've given reasons already.

And I am talking in general.


S.A.G.

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Clare
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Rose of York
Oct 3 2007, 12:09 AM
Nobody has given a reason why a man should be paid more than a woman, just because he is a man (married or single, father or childless)

I thought I had! Men don't get pregnant. Men are, in general, physically stronger.

Quote:
 
Try this:

Should a man who is actively hom osex ual be paid more than a widow with ten children?


No. If anything he should get less!

But you keep trying to make exceptions the norm, Rose!
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Clare
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Anyhow, here's Rerum Novarum. It might have something relevant in it. I don't know! Not read it all!
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Rose of York
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Clare
Oct 3 2007, 09:35 AM
Rose of York
Oct 3 2007, 12:09 AM
Nobody has given a reason why a man should be paid more than a woman, just because he is a man (married or single, father or childless)

I thought I had! Men don't get pregnant. Men are, in general, physically stronger.


Who needs physical strength to get a job? There are career choices.



Keep the Faith!

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Clare
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Rose of York
Oct 3 2007, 10:11 AM
Who needs physical strength to get a job?  There are career choices.

Have there always been?
S.A.G.

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Mrs Jamie

In trying to defend the indefensible your arguments are getting sillier Clare...

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Rose of York
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Clare
Oct 3 2007, 11:00 AM
Rose of York
Oct 3 2007, 10:11 AM
Who needs physical strength to get a job?  There are career choices.

Have there always been?

Yes, depending mainly on education, and opportunities (often determined at birth, depending on the status of the parents).

The Book of Wisdom
 
13 She hath sought wool and flax, and hath wrought by the counsel of her hands. 14 She is like the merchant's ship, she bringeth her bread from afar. 15 And she hath risen in the night, and given a prey to her household, and victuals to her maidens.

16 She hath considered a field, and bought it: with the fruit of her hands she hath planted a vineyard. 17 She hath girded her loins with strength, and hath strengthened her arm. 18 She hath tasted and seen that her traffic is good: her lamp shall not be put out in the night. 19 She hath put out her hand to strong things, and her fingers have taken hold of the spindle. 20 She hath opened her hand to the needy, and stretched out her hands to the poor.


She did needlework, and with the fruit of her handywork she bough a field and planted a vineyard.

Women worked as teachers, nannies, secretaries, shop assistants and managers, cooks, maids and housekeepers in Victorian times.
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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QV and Clare

Please tell me, is it right and proper for an employer to make enquiries about the prospective employee's intentions, regarding how they will spend their wages?

Should an employer pay more to the young father who has dependant children and a mortgage, than to the man over 65 who has State and occupational pensions?

I agree that a father should be paid sufficient to maintain a family in dignity, but I maintain it is the responsibility of Government to make appropriate adjustments to net (ie take home) pay to allow for family commitments.
Keep the Faith!

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Mrs Jamie

Rose of York
Oct 3 2007, 11:14 AM
QV and Clare

Please tell me, is it right and proper for an employer to make enquiries about the prospective employee's intentions, regarding how they will spend their wages?

Should an employer pay more to the young father who has dependant children and a mortgage, than to the man over 65 who has State and occupational pensions?

I agree that a father should be paid sufficient to maintain a family in dignity, but I maintain it is the responsibility of Government to make appropriate adjustments to net (ie take home) pay to allow for family commitments.

I foresee a great difficulty here Rose - when making his enquiries an employer will perhaps look more kindly on a man with ten children - but who is to say the man will spend his wages on his family, and not at the pub and the betting shop on the way home?

And I have never noticed that a loaf of bread is cheaper when bought by a woman, than a man - single or married....

I'm also intrigued about the sliding scale Clare's mythical employer would have to use to establish what constitutes 'enough' - is this enough to live off mince and tatties? To afford a roast once a week? Chicken or sirloin? To afford a modest holiday? Weekend away or fortnight in the sun?
A car? New or second hand - two years old or ten?

As you so rightly say Rose wages are paid in return for a job competently done - and who does them is immaterial.

Now remind me Clare - who was it said something about labourers being worthy of their hire?
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Rose of York
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Clare
Oct 3 2007, 09:35 AM
Rose of York
Oct 3 2007, 12:09 AM
Nobody has given a reason why a man should be paid more than a woman, just because he is a man (married or single, father or childless)

I thought I had! Men don't get pregnant. Men are, in general, physically stronger.

Quote:
 
Try this:

Should a man who is actively hom osex ual be paid more than a widow with ten children?


No. If anything he should get less!

But you keep trying to make exceptions the norm, Rose!

Ok lets look at exceptions to the norm, by which I take it you mean men with dependant families.

Men and boys:

1 Teenage youths who have no plans to marry in the forseeable future.

2 Infertile men.

3 Men married to medically infertile women.

4 Men married to post menopausal women.

5 Childless widowers over the age of 50, not proposing to marry pre menopausal women.

6 hom osex ual men.

7 Men whose children have grown up and are self supporting.

8 Catholic priests employed as prison and hospital chaplains, paid over £30,000 pa , going home to rent free presbyteries, should they be paid more than married women working as chaplains for other religions? Catholic chaplains don't get pregnant.

That's a lot of men, probably the majority of the male workforce.

Women:

1 Single mothers who were never married.

2 Divorcees.

3 Separated wives.

4 Widows.

5 Spinsters.

6 Nuns employed in State schools, contributing their wages for the upkeep of their sisters in the convent, who are unable to take paid work.

7 Mothers who need to take paid work because their husbands are in no position to work, due to sickness or mass unemployment in the area where they reside.

8 Mothers whose husbands cannot earn sufficient to pay the housing and other costs to maintain their families in dignity.

That's a lot of women.

The married man with dependant children is the exception, not the norm.

Children turn into adults in eighteen years flat.

It takes about 24 years to raise four children from the birth of the first to the 18th birthday of the youngest. The normal working life is from 16, 18 or 21 to 65 (49, 47 or 44 years)

Keep the Faith!

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James
James
What about the people who stand outside their offices for about 10 minutes out of every hour to have a fag. Come downstairs , go outside, and then back up again.
About three quarters of an hour to an hour or so, each ,daily.

Then the people who have the long lunch breaks - mostly liquid sort.

Then the internal emails of no consequence.

Then the lenghty discussions on the latest girl/boyfriend of a colleague and what they are getting up to.

Should they have equal pay with the poor soap who is working away all the time.
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Rose of York
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James
Oct 3 2007, 01:46 PM


Should they have equal pay with the poor soap who is working away all the time.

I'm not sure what has to do with the issue, James, unless its the women who are burning themselves out having that fag.
Keep the Faith!

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Clare
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Rose of York
Oct 3 2007, 12:10 PM
Clare
Oct 3 2007, 11:00 AM
Rose of York
Oct 3 2007, 10:11 AM
Who needs physical strength to get a job?  There are career choices.

Have there always been?

Yes, depending mainly on education, and opportunities (often determined at birth, depending on the status of the parents).

If they were "often determined" by some factor or other, they weren't choices.


Quote:
 
She did needlework, and with the fruit of her handywork she bough a field and planted a vineyard.

Women worked as teachers, nannies, secretaries, shop assistants and managers, cooks, maids and housekeepers in Victorian times.


Yes. But they didn't have "career choices" as we now know them. Neither did most men.

S.A.G.

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Clare
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Rose of York
Oct 3 2007, 12:14 PM
QV and Clare

Please tell me, is it right and proper for an employer to make enquiries about the prospective employee's intentions, regarding how they will spend their wages?

Why are you asking me? I never said they should!

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