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Women Burned Out At 30!
Topic Started: Friday, 28. September 2007, 13:09 (2,045 Views)
Michael

think the weather has probably got a lot to do with it....when temperatures reach the 100s in Spain, Italy, Malta, south of France etc in the summer months, I reckon everyone does slow down a bit, and maybe even have a siesta....whereas in the chilly Protestant north, when the rain lashes down throughout the "summer" everyone gets stuck in to keep warm......
bring on global warming, i could do with a rest :D
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Rose of York
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Clare
Oct 3 2007, 09:38 AM
Anyhow, here's Rerum Novarum. It might have something relevant in it. I don't know! Not read it all!

As this is a Catholic Forum I invite contributors to put a Catholic or at least a moral or Christian aspect to this discussion. It has been going round in circles for days.

Rerum Novarum says very little about working women. It might be worth while trying Quadragessimo Anno, accessible through our forum section "Encyclicals and Vatican Documents."

MickCook gave some useful links

MickCook
Sep 30 2007, 05:17 PM
Keep the Faith!

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maklavan

I have been quite intrigued by the response to my original posting on this topic. I actually meant it to be a light hearted piece, caused by my amazement that anyone in their thirties,male or female, could be burned out.What exactly does that mean,and what does it imply? The depth and earnestness of so many postings has been humbling. Our parents,and certainly our grandparents marched to a different drum. In those days going out to work was not an option for most Catholic mothers. Single mums were rare because divorce was rare. Does mean that people were economically better off,then ? I do not think so. The evidence is that the average family was poorer, in economic terms.
It was values and aspirations that were different,then. Far fewer people had high mortgages, or even cars but they were,perhaps, better adapted to the business of surviving. there is no doubt that modern trends of secularism and materialism have bitten deep into Catholic attitudes. in addition,of course, the fact that the vast majority of catholics do not go to church any more is bound to have an impact on attitudes. this,in turn, implies that the next generation will be void of Catholic beliefs. maybe it is the weight of all these factors that is causing people to feel burned out before the big 40 arrive.
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Clare
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maklavan
Oct 7 2007, 10:34 PM
I have been quite intrigued by the response to my original posting on this topic. I actually meant it to be a light hearted piece, caused by my amazement that anyone in their thirties,male or female, could be burned out.What exactly does that mean,and what does it imply? The depth and earnestness of so many postings has been humbling. Our parents,and certainly our grandparents marched to a different drum. In those days going out to work was not an option for most Catholic mothers. Single mums were rare because divorce was rare. Does mean that people were economically better off,then ? I do not think so. The evidence is that the average family was poorer, in economic terms.
It was values and aspirations that were different,then. Far fewer people had high mortgages, or even cars but they were,perhaps, better adapted to the business of surviving. there is no doubt that modern trends of secularism and materialism have bitten deep into Catholic attitudes. in addition,of course, the fact that the vast majority of catholics do not go to church any more is bound to have an impact on attitudes. this,in turn, implies that the next generation will be void of Catholic beliefs. maybe it is the weight of all these factors that is causing people to feel burned out before the big 40 arrive.

Sit down, mak.

I think you're right!

It's a spiritual malaise.
S.A.G.

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Rose of York
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maklavan
Oct 7 2007, 10:34 PM
in addition,of course, the fact that the vast majority of catholics do not go to church any more is bound to have an impact on attitudes.

Mak are you putting the cart before the horse?

Changed attitudes are bound to have an impact on the numbers of young adult Catholics not going to church.

It is not all down to mothers being in gainful employment. Its the ones who could afford to stay at home with the families and dash around the leisure centres and gymnasiums that get stressed.

I get sick to death of mothers being criticised for going out to work. Few have a choice. It is nothing to do with a comparison between wages now and wages years ago. Millions of small terraced houses were demolished. The Government did its best to get rid of subsidised housing. If the cheapest houses cost ten times as much as most people earn what is the mother supposed to do? The mothers are not to blame for their inability to find an affordable home with an no garden, outside toilet, one bedroom where she can virtuously raise her brood. It is not the mother's fault the second hand shops closed down because the Government bans the sale of untested second hand domestic appliances, and beds and furniture stuffed with inflammable material. That is the reason modern woman greedily buys brand new.

Lets have a go at the fathers for a change. Who is the most likely to "need" a webcam, "need" a better computer, "need" a "decent car" instead of the perfectly serviceable four year old car they already own? The man. Men outnumber women in the queue at the take away. A woman can give a family of four two good dinners each for the cost of her poor darling's takeway. He's too busy to cook when his wife's poorly. Poor little chap's been at work all day.

If we are going to criticise single mothers for having children before marriage, lets take it out of the man who was involved in the act. Now for the divorcees. Man bashes woman. Woman kicks him out. She gets a job. Bad woman. If she hadn't thrown him out she wouldn't have needed a job.

There, I've blown off steam. I feel much better now.

Gentlemen of the forum, I await your responses with glee.
Keep the Faith!

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Clare
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Rose of York
Oct 8 2007, 09:59 AM
maklavan
Oct 7 2007, 10:34 PM
in addition,of course, the fact that the vast majority of catholics do not go to church any more is bound to have an impact on attitudes.

Mak are you putting the cart before the horse?

Changed attitudes are bound to have an impact on the numbers of young adult Catholics not going to church.

No, I think that Mak has (for once! :lol: ) got the horse in front of the cart!

Quote:
 
I get sick to death of mothers being criticised for going out to work.  Few have a choice.

And I don't think anyone has criticised mothers for going to work when they have no choice. My criticisms are aimed at the feminists who engineered things so that women now have no choice, but to go out to workl

Quote:
 
Lets have a go at the fathers for a change.  Who is the most likely to "need" a webcam, "need" a better computer, "need" a "decent car" instead of the perfectly serviceable four year old car they already own?  The man.

No, the 20-year old son or daughter!

Quote:
 
Men outnumber women in the queue at the take away.

And when my hubby's at the take-away buying the whole family a meal, he is saving me an evening's cooking duty! I don't have a problem with that.

Clare.
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Rose of York
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I have seen no evidence that children whose mothers go out to work, are less likely to be at Mass than families whose mothers don't. Are there any statistics available?
Keep the Faith!

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Clare
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Rose of York
Oct 8 2007, 12:00 PM
I have seen no evidence that children whose mothers go out to work, are less likely to be at Mass than families whose mothers don't. Are there any statistics available?

That's not the point Rose.

You seem to see things only materially.

Try to see things spiritually!

I see no evidence that my sins are responsible for the crucifixion! I didn't even exist at the time. But my sins are responsible. Some men 2000 years ago sentenced Christ, and hammered the nails in. That is what was materially responsible for the crucifixion. But really, our sins are responsible.

The fact is that society is suffering, even though individuals within society seem unaffected.

The family and society have been undermined.

A child from a single parent family may well turn out better than a child from a conventional family.

That does not make single parent families ideal!

Perhaps someone more erudite can attempt to explain what I mean.

Clare.
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Mrs Jamie

I think there are some rose-coloured spectacles being worn here.

Real burn out was when poverty-stricken women could expect to bear a baby a year......


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Rose of York
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Clare
Oct 8 2007, 11:57 AM
And I don't think anyone has criticised mothers for going to work when they have no choice. My criticisms are aimed at the feminists who engineered things so that women now have no choice, but to go out to workl

By what means did they engineer things?

Working class women in Britain always needed to work if they wanted their children to be raised in homes fit for habitation, with sufficient space for parents to have their own bedroom, and where teenage girls and boys did not share bedrooms. Men got no money if they were off work due to sickness or industrial accident. They worked because to opt out of earning money, thereby putting their families at risk of poor diet and bad housing, would have been sinful.

Working mothers are far from being a modern phenomenon.



Keep the Faith!

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maklavan

Rose of York
Oct 8 2007, 08:59 AM
maklavan
Oct 7 2007, 10:34 PM
in addition,of course, the fact that the vast majority of catholics do not go to church any more is bound to have an impact on attitudes.

Mak are you putting the cart before the horse?

Changed attitudes are bound to have an impact on the numbers of young adult Catholics not going to church.

It is not all down to mothers being in gainful employment. Its the ones who could afford to stay at home with the families and dash around the leisure centres and gymnasiums that get stressed.

I get sick to death of mothers being criticised for going out to work. Few have a choice. It is nothing to do with a comparison between wages now and wages years ago. Millions of small terraced houses were demolished. The Government did its best to get rid of subsidised housing. If the cheapest houses cost ten times as much as most people earn what is the mother supposed to do? The mothers are not to blame for their inability to find an affordable home with an no garden, outside toilet, one bedroom where she can virtuously raise her brood. It is not the mother's fault the second hand shops closed down because the Government bans the sale of untested second hand domestic appliances, and beds and furniture stuffed with inflammable material. That is the reason modern woman greedily buys brand new.

Lets have a go at the fathers for a change. Who is the most likely to "need" a webcam, "need" a better computer, "need" a "decent car" instead of the perfectly serviceable four year old car they already own? The man. Men outnumber women in the queue at the take away. A woman can give a family of four two good dinners each for the cost of her poor darling's takeway. He's too busy to cook when his wife's poorly. Poor little chap's been at work all day.

If we are going to criticise single mothers for having children before marriage, lets take it out of the man who was involved in the act. Now for the divorcees. Man bashes woman. Woman kicks him out. She gets a job. Bad woman. If she hadn't thrown him out she wouldn't have needed a job.

There, I've blown off steam. I feel much better now.

Gentlemen of the forum, I await your responses with glee.

I am with you 100% on the question of Catholic women suffering in the "old" days because of the prevailing attitude that they had to stick it out because they had signed up for better or worse and divorce was a non-starter. Let me give you two examples from my own counselling days,which do not infringe on confidentiality issues. one woman suffered years of abuse from her husband,and eventually, went to her parish priest for help. he told her to go back to her husband and stop provoking him, then he would not beat her,and that it was her duty as a catholic to stay with him "for the sake of the children". She was sporting a black eye and broken nose during the interview. Another woman came down stairs early one morning and found her husband creeping in at the back door. he had been for a tryst with his fancy woman. her eldest child,aged 11,had told her already that he had seen daddy kissing a strange lady in a car,but she had refused to believe him. With four children to provide for, he felt she would never throw him out. Wrong. She ignored the warnings of her pp and obtained a civil divorce.She was, and continues to be,a devout Catholic.
I also agree that many problems and burdens of married couples stem from the corporate greed and exploitation in our society. This, together with materialism and wrong values , is at the root of much evil.
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Emee
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It was Maureen McNally in The Universe who pointed out that if a man beats his wife, to all intents and purposes, he has broken HIS part of the vow: "To love and to honour..."

As I get older I am increasingly of the mind that for a women to stay in a violent, abusive relationship she is actually putting fear of her "husband" before her love of God and His desire for her own self-respect and well-being.

Having said that, a Catholic / Christian woman needs all the faith she can muster to make the first brave steps to leave that harmful relationship. There may well be children to consider... That is where the support of the extended family is so very important. And if she does not have her family or any friends nearby she will face a real struggle alone without strong faith.

Nevertheless I have seen women, with the help of God, making this work time and time again.
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Clare
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Rose of York
Oct 8 2007, 02:07 PM
By what means did they engineer things?

Working class women in Britain always needed to work if they wanted their children to be raised in homes fit for habitation, with sufficient space for parents to have their own bedroom, and where teenage girls and boys did not share bedrooms. Men got no money if they were off work due to sickness or industrial accident. They worked because to opt out of earning money, thereby putting their families at risk of poor diet and bad housing, would have been sinful.

Working mothers are far from being a modern phenomenon.

You're having it both ways again!

Way 1. Isn't it good women can go to work these days?

Way 2. Women have always had to go to work!

I never said they haven't.

What I have been lamenting is careerism.

And Mrs Jamie will tell me off again for implying that it's ok to work as long as you aren't being fulfilled!

I give up.

:angry:

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Clare
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And I'm not saying that women should stay in violent relationships either!

They shouldn't.



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