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Orthodox, Holy Orders
Topic Started: Tuesday, 18. September 2007, 22:55 (219 Views)
nelly k

There was a big article in the Scotsman newspaper today about the troubles between Romanian Orthodox and Romanian Catholics... basically when the Communists banned Catholisim their Churches were comandered by the Orthodox, now the Catholics want their Churches back, Constantinople and the like is mentioned... but its the Marriage thing that gets me... in the past year I have thought more and more that we should be looking at grounds for a Married order of men, should we not be doing this before Deaconess?

nelly
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Hi Nelly
The dispute between the Orthodox and us over commandeered churches is an issue in several countries including the Ukraine and parts of Russia itself. There is tension too on other issues with Orthodox suspicion about Catholic attempts to seek converts from their ranks. All in all, relations remain poor and that it one of the reasons why I find it hard to understand the good press the orthodox Church gets in this Forum

Regards

John
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Derekap
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I think Romania is not the only example where Catholic churches were given to The Orthodox Church and Catholics are struggling to regain possession.

A Religious Order for Widowers maybe but not married men. There are societies which men can join and still fulfil their married and family duties.

Can anyone even consider a Religious Order for married women?
Derekap
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Rose of York
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nelly k
Sep 18 2007, 10:55 PM
in the past year I have thought more and more that we should be looking at grounds for a Married order of men, should we not be doing this before Deaconess?

nelly

Nelly if you mean married priests, that is a different issue from women deacons. Deacons are not mini priests, they have their own roles.

Half of the people are women. In this country well over half of practising Catholics are women. It would be good for women to be able to approach a woman for confidential pastoral care.
Keep the Faith!

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Gerard

Nelly,

Agreed,

Lets restore Celtic Monasticism.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Gerard

Derek,

Quote:
 
Can anyone even consider a Religious Order for married women?



Yes, me :D

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Gerard

John,

Orthodox appear to get a favourable presentation on this forum, I think, becuase when making an argument for something different we point to the Orthodox if it happens there (eg married priests). So, overall it seems favourable. To mention one thing I dislike about the Orthodox is the way they have the priests say the prayers on behalf of the people - who then stand around and pop out occasionally for a chat, smoke or just to releive the boredom.

However, there is very great value in having this example of an alternative way for the Church to be. Some like to believe that the Catholic Church has developed in exactly the way designed by The Holy Spirit and that it's human structures, administrations, and general way of life are more-or-less perfect. The Orthodox remind us that other developments are possible. I mentioned Celtic Monasticism and was serious. This way of life had benefits of community living, greater empowerment and representation for women and even a division of power between Abbotts and Bishops.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Rose of York
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Derekap
Sep 18 2007, 11:16 PM

Can anyone even consider a Religious Order for married women?

That depends what mood I'm in.

Derek if you know of one, do you have the contact details please? :D

Gerard
Sep 19 2007, 07:10 AM
Nelly,

Agreed,

Lets restore Celtic Monasticism.

Gerry


Gerry I haven't time to research Celtic Monasticism today.

May I trouble you for a brief description?

Keep the Faith!

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Gerard

Rose,

Briefly and not word perfect:

Village sized community centred upon an Abbey.
Committed single men and women live in the Abbey (different wings)
Married Couples and children live in community around the Abbey.
Property held in common
Hospitality and sharing very important
Community led by the Abbott or Abess - usually lay, usually family of clan chief.
Power and administration lay with the Abbott/ess

Here is a reasonable website:

http://www.st-cuthberts.net/celspty.htm

Quote:
 
The Celtic church celebrated grace and nature as good gifts from God and recognised the sacredness of all creation. It had a love of mysticism and poetry, a deep respect for the feminine, included women in its leadership and allowed clerical marriages. The Celtic understanding of church leadership was rooted in its rural and agricultural communal culture, and the great Celtic monasteries emerged from this tribal system. Although the abbots were generally not ordained, the leadership and power in the Celtic church, lay with the abbots of the monasteries.


Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Gerard
I agree with what you say about Orthodox services. The last one I attended the priest actually came out of the secluded part of the altar where he and the other priests were praying to ask the congregation to be a little quieter. Exactly as you say, in the absence of their engagement in the liturgy, the people had turned to normal noisy secular conversation to fill in the time.

Regards

John
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Derekap
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On Sunday mornings Holy Mass in Orthodox churches is part of or the climax of liturgical services. The last time I attended one the big chief himself did not turn up until half-way through the morning - along with a retinue of clergy and lay people. In the summer months at least the very hot, and perhaps humid, weather may encourage people (including clerical students) to pop out for a breath of fresh air. On the occasion I mentioned, the service was broadcast to the beautiful parkland surrounding the Cathedral. The nearest to a Garden of Eden I have ever been.
Derekap
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