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I Am Sick To Death Of Tolerance; (Serious discussion this time)
Topic Started: Thursday, 13. September 2007, 01:43 (476 Views)
Karin
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Karin
Some of us had a discussion yesterday about children being raised today knowing their "rights" - according to the social workers and government officials, teachers and school boards. By the time they can read a label on a candy bar or use the channel changer, they are running the parents ragged. Discipline has gone out the window and parents are hit with jail terms and heavy fines if they try to spank a child for misbehaving. Even little kids tell teachers (or vice versa parents) when they are spanked or even talked to sternly, when they disobey. I must agree with JARay...respect has gone out the window!

We have become so "familiar" in our society, that titles, such as 'Doctor", "Reverend", "Sir" or "Ma'm" are ignored in favour of first names. I would never consider such a thing unless I knew a professional person personally - and rather well, before I would use their first name in a professional setting. Our priests like to have us use their first names...but with the name of "Father" preceding it. The thought of coming up to my parish priest and saying, "Hi Larry" makes me cringe! Respect, protocol - whatever you want to call it, is gone from our society in the mainstream. Even our veterans don't get the respect they deserve for giving their lives (bodies, limbs, etc.) in defense of our country. We shuttle our elderly into "retirement" homes, then get on with our lives without them. Ours is a discardable society.

Sometimes we leave our flat door open...just so we can go in and out easily. But never, ever, would we consider leaving it unlocked if we go away. Bicycles are stolen, tires slashed, windows broken - all for "sport" for bored kids. The kids are ruling the world, especially here in the States. Then they wonder why they turn to drugs and crime, have no decent education or jobs when they get older - and why marriages or relationships end in disaster. You get a bunch of twenty-somethings who have no idea which end their heads are attached to!!

Of course, there are some people who have been raised correctly, to respect others, live moral lives and make a commitment to their community. I may have the memories of living in the "Ozzie and Harriet" days and feel "Father Knows Best", but I also know how advanced we have become and our lives must change with that...but why, on earth, must we lose respect for others in the process? And why should parents be afraid of their kids...even the little ones? How did we lose control?
Karin

Hvaljen Isus i Marija. Kraljica Mira, moli za nas.
"Praised be Jesus and Mary. Queen of Peace, Pray for Us."

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Jaray
I put this question with the greatest of respect , not aggressively, because it could equally be posed to me.

Is your prosperity a cause of all these problems or is it just other people's prosperity that threatens society?

Regards

John
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Colin2000

John Sweeney
Sep 16 2007, 09:15 PM
I disagree
In the 50s we never left our doors unlocked. That is a Daily Mail /Telegraph myth. We did discriminate openly against black people because of the colour of their skin. We had no minimum wage. We created the conditions which have led to global warming. A privileged few went to university and collared all the best jobs as a result. We made only very limited attempts to share our wealth with the Third World. The repression throughout society led to a tough aloof, emotion starved society which led to most of the social problems we grapple with today. Women were denied their rightful place in society and indeed in many public sector jobs had to leave as soon as they married.

Today drugs is a problem leading to much of the low level but pernicious crime which plagues certain areas. However, our young people ar emuch more engaged, improvements have been made to racial and sexual equality although we have much to do, our young people can aspire and often reach the heights of any profession, aid to the Third World is huge although still not enough and compared to the Fifties there is much more engagement and respect for each other. Gay rights is another area where we are much more civilised than then although the Church in particular needs to raise its game on this. All in all, much better now.

Above all, more people are more prosperous which is a key gain.

Regards

john

Hi John,

I fear I hear echos of the Marxist Doctrine in your conclusions rather than Christ's Doctrine.

Does your Christian ethic include the political outlook that we all agree with minimum wage or women pursuing a careerer rather than nurturing the children?

Also gay/hom osex uality tolerated within the Christian ethic. Not under my roof it is not!

It may be in my church but a split is more welcoming than a priest blessing same sex marriage which even breaks the definition of marriage. How can two men get married?

Yours in His Name,

Colin.

PS. You also mention the third world and our sharing our wealth with them? Sharing our wealth? Novel concept it has never happened before in the history of the human race. Barter and trade never sharing! How do you square this with the fact that the power base of the Third World is Islam?
JESUS IS LORD


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Derekap
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Does anyone else (apart from me) think that in Ye Goode Olde Days much sinful activity was, what we say today, very low-profile, pregnant teenagers, even if innocent, were spirited away, abortions very hush hush. Today everything is much more "open" and considered normal. This doesn't make it more moral of course.

Just a thought!
Derekap
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Colin2000

Derekap
Sep 17 2007, 08:52 PM
Does anyone else (apart from me) think that in Ye Goode Olde Days much sinful activity was, what we say today, very low-profile, pregnant teenagers, even if innocent, were spirited away, abortions very hush hush. Today everything is much more "open" and considered normal. This doesn't make it more moral of course.

Just a thought!

Hi Derekap,

Shall we assume that there are two standards, The Christian Ethic and the Mortal Ethic. One leads to Eternal Life one leads to Mortal Death.

Problem is I have taken Christian Applied Doctrine and produced an ethic of goodworks. But some say I am a proper little Pharisee anyway!

Sounds like a step back into The Victorian Ethic! We play at being good in public and we play at being so bad in private. Does this sound familiar.

Now we are so bad in public and so good in private? Something does not quite fit the Image of Christ here. But it works when I am so Sick to Death with Tolerance of good and very bad Society!

You work it out I can not for I am an Individual? That means I make it up as I go along so why do I need the Church anymore?

Yours in His Everlovingtenderkindness,

Colin.
JESUS IS LORD


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Rose of York
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Members of Parliament who were unhappily married had to choose between staying with their spouses or stepping down from their Parliamentary seats.

Armed service officers who divorced were expected to resign their commissions.

As for going to church after a divorce, that would have been unthinkable.

hom osex ual activity was secret because it was a criminal offence, attracting a prison sentence.

It makes me wonder just what the grown ups were getting up to when I was too young to understand.

Does anyone remember the comments that a young man had got a girl into trouble, or a girl had got herself into trouble?

Women who had been raped were expected to feel ashamed. So were beaten wives. It was assumed they had asked for it.

At school a teacher told us Mrs X was a bad woman, she had obtained a legal separation on the grounds of cruelty. We were told we could play with her children at school, but we should not go into their house.
Keep the Faith!

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I do agree Dereap.
Colin, I am not sure I understand your basic point but I notice Islam is again introduced . This seems to be the politically correct thing to do now ,that is introduce some sort of criticism of Islam into every discussion, however remote the connection.

Regards

John
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Rose of York
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JARay
Sep 17 2007, 12:06 AM
This stupid society is driving itself into extinction and sharia law will increasingly hold sway as more and more Moslems take over the de-christianised West. Their single-minded determination to take over is aided by godlessness of the West.

JARay

At least the Muslims can teach the others that going out on Saturday night for the sole purpose of getting smashed and vomiting in the street is not acceptable. Muslim women could teach white women that it is unacceptable to walk along the street half naked.
Keep the Faith!

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Rose
You must realise that it is politically correct to criticise Islam even in the most disconnected of circumstances. The tabloids have so decreed and their adherents blindly follow.

Regards

John
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Rose of York
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John Sweeney I am capable of criticising some things done by some muslims, but when I mention that some muslim ladies are working hard at integration by holding combined craft exhibitons with the indigenous white population, the usual answer is "don't believe them. They are up to something."

Jaray and I originate in the same neck of the woods, where some towns are on the way to being more like the Indian sub continent that England. Some of the muslims want to be accepted as British but there is, in that area, a strong element of dangerous extremism.

Its not that many years since some people tarred all Catholics with the same brush because of Irish terrorism.
Keep the Faith!

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Colin2000

Rose of York
Sep 17 2007, 11:03 PM
John Sweeney I am capable of criticising some things done by some muslims, but when I mention that some muslim ladies are working hard at integration by holding combined craft exhibitons with the indigenous white population, the usual answer is "don't believe them. They are up to something."

Jaray and I originate in the same neck of the woods, where some towns are on the way to being more like the Indian sub continent that England. Some of the muslims want to be accepted as British but there is, in that area, a strong element of dangerous extremism.

Its not that many years since some people tarred all Catholics with the same brush because of Irish terrorism.

Hi Rose,

And also as a minority at the time I well remember in the late 1970's holding some very spiritually deep and practical conversations with two Belfast Police Officers in a Convent at two o'clock in the morning in the North East of England!

The two Police Officers were Roman Catholics you see who had just spoke to some of your people in one of the local Church's (RC.) and they were beautiful Christian people born again in their involvement in the Troubles!

I got in a few funny places in those days. But I met some lovely Catholic people including your Fathers and nuns. There was such a yearning for peace in Ireland. The HolyGhost was not to far away in that Convent either!

I mentioned Islam because John mentioned The Third World. Yes there is not to much difference between Islam and Roman Catholic Ireland is there! The main difference is Jesus The Christ!

The bleeding has stopped in Ireland hopefully for good. Because it was between brothers. If we mean to talk of intolerance as against 'Being Sick to Death of Tolerance' here, well your new agenda John Sweeney of looking out into the third world instead of the third world of an empty Church so be it!

Yours in His Name,

Colin.
JESUS IS LORD


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Clare
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
Rose of York
Sep 17 2007, 11:44 PM
At least the Muslims can teach the others that going out on Saturday night for the sole purpose of getting smashed and vomiting in the street is not acceptable.  Muslim women could teach white women that it is unacceptable to walk along the street half naked.

Shouldn't Catholics be doing that?

I doubt the women who go out half-naked and get smashed would be particularly receptive to the example set by Muslim women!

Clare.
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Karin
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Karin
Absolutely right, Clare. Over here, I've heard Mick comment, 'that's a nice outfit she's almost wearing.' And with him working at the University, he sees all modes of dress - or non-dress. There are a few Moslem women attending University and they are all modestly dressed, usually with long light-weight coats over their trousers (yes, they wear pants!). And it's usually a long scarf done in a bright colour or pattern to offset the rather bland outfit. Being a modest dress mom (that's what our mom's group calls ourselves), I certainly understand where they are coming from. I wouldn't ever think of (nor have I ever done, even in my younger years) wearing something skimpy or going out without being covered up. Good heavens, I would frighten the neighbours if I did that! Scary thought!

I know we have had this discussion before about modest dress and for me, I'm so old-fashioned that I wouldn't wear trousers to church, unless it was sub-zero out, with snow falling. I look ridiculous in them anyway!
Karin

Hvaljen Isus i Marija. Kraljica Mira, moli za nas.
"Praised be Jesus and Mary. Queen of Peace, Pray for Us."

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PJD

I do agree in general with the responses of QV, Mick & JARay.

Just a word of some sympathy with John inasmuch as he, indirectly, referred to what I call the old ‘class’ system: the presence then of which in my opinion deferred eschatological development in theological & philosophical progress – and in an era of change when it was most needed. And I would reference here the “pharisaic present”.

For consider the “we” that John listed in his contribution of the 13th; which I assume he attributes to the common folk (if I have read him correctly that is). Then if we address his ‘we’ to the higher powers and those at the top what does the common man actually experience as a result of their legislative pharisaism:-

‘murder is wrong’ (so much for abortion and soon euthanasia, and goodness knows what else).

‘stealing is wrong’ (tell that to those squeezed by monopolies)

‘people decently paid for the work they do’ (tell that to young couples trying to set up home and raise children)

‘healthcare should be free’ (tell that to those who see a gradual dilution of the 1940 principle)

‘corruption in public life’ and ‘harder to get away with it’ (pull the other leg)

‘paid the same for doing the same job’ (tell that to the ‘efficient’ and those reading about corporate bonuses)

‘discrimination’ (tell that to the Catholic hierarchy).

[Some failure of anticipation at hierarchical level cannot be ruled out].

PJD
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