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| I Am Sick To Death Of Tolerance; (Serious discussion this time) | |
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| Topic Started: Thursday, 13. September 2007, 01:43 (475 Views) | |
| Rose of York | Thursday, 13. September 2007, 01:43 Post #1 |
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I say abortion is wicked, evil. I believe hom osex uality is sinful. Shacking up unwed in a sexual relationship is sinful. Insurance fraud is wrong. Such views, according to "modern thinking" smack of intolerance. It is acceptable for journalists to say so. "Modern thinking" is that people should be able to do as they please, if it doesn't harm anybody else. What harms others is not, according to "modern thinking", debatable. Then why is it considered acceptable for some people to say that people who go to Church are hypocrites who only go to Church to be seen, and think they are better than everybody else? Its not as though we are harming others. Lets have fair treatment. If the others should be able to do as they please why can't I go inside a church without being treated like an oddball? We must be tolerant of the fornicators, the fraudsters, adulterers and baby-killers. Society says so. Well I'm sick to death of tolerance, its gone too far. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| MickCook | Thursday, 13. September 2007, 03:31 Post #2 |
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Tolerance is about accepting people as they are: black, while, old, young, rich, poor or a funny green colour with blue polkadots. It is not intolerant to say that abortion is wrong - this is not about people but about the value of life. It is not intolerant to say that hom-osexuality is wrong: only a man and a woman can marry in the Catholic Church because marriage is validated by the vows of permanence, fidelity and children - two men cannot produce a child together and nor can two women (so marriage between two men or between two women is physically impossible) and any expression of *exuality outside of marriage is wrong regardless of the orientation of those involved. If you want to know why fraud is wrong - ask a victim! Tolerance is about accepting people it is not about accepting moral views that clash with Church teaching and even reason. Let's be clear about this: Catholics, Protestants, Moslems, Jews, people of other faiths and even atheists and agnostics can hold pro-life views because the right to life is a universal right that defines all human rights and freedoms. The claims of the gay community represent only a small proportion of the over-all population - why should a minority dictate to the majority on an issue of *exual ethics? The "Modern Thinking" to which Rose refers is devoid of reason, devoid of a real understanding of the human condition and devoid of any real sense of the real nature of right and wrong. By the way. Anyone who insists that morality is a matter of personal opinion shoots himself (or herself) in the foot. What they are basically saying is that they have no right to impose their moral views on the rest of us. Of course it is because morality has a social dimension that it cannot be restricted to personal opinion - it is also a matter of informed, objective reasoning. This is otherwise known as Ethics or the Science of Morality. We should never be ashamed of our Catholic Christian faith and we should always insist that reason should prevail. |
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:) Mick The Cook Companies | |
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| Deleted User | Thursday, 13. September 2007, 10:29 Post #3 |
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I think the split between "modern thinking" and "traditional morality" is a false one. This country has improved immeasurably in moral terms since I was a boy. This is to a large extent because there is a huge measure of agreement across society about moral issues. The area of disagreement is comparatively small and confined largely to sexual/reproductive issues. We all agree murder is wrong. We all agree stealing is wrong. We accept that people should be decently paid for the work they do. We accept that healthcare should be free at the point of delivery. We condemn corruption in public life and this is harder than ever before to get away with. We believe that men and women are equal and should be paid the same for doing the same job. We do not believe in discrimination on grounds of colour or creed. We disagree on abortion, contraception, hom osex uality, living together without marriage. Regards John |
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| Clare | Thursday, 13. September 2007, 11:17 Post #4 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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S.A.G. Motes 'n' Beams blog Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz! | |
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| Clare | Thursday, 13. September 2007, 11:18 Post #5 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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S.A.G. Motes 'n' Beams blog Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz! | |
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| PJD | Thursday, 13. September 2007, 18:31 Post #6 |
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What you are really saying Rose is that you are sick to death of sin. PJD |
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| Rose of York | Thursday, 13. September 2007, 18:55 Post #7 |
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Not exactly. I am sick of the current ethos which is that: Its a free country. We have free speech. People are allowed to say as they please. People should not talk about religion. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| PJD | Thursday, 13. September 2007, 19:43 Post #8 |
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Isn't the last sinful Rose? PJD |
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| Clare | Thursday, 13. September 2007, 19:48 Post #9 |
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Putting the "Fun Dame" into Fundamentalist
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I think Rose was pointing out a double standard, PJD. |
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S.A.G. Motes 'n' Beams blog Join in the Fun Trivia Quiz! | |
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| MickCook | Thursday, 13. September 2007, 21:48 Post #10 |
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To a point I would agree with John in the sense that moral awareness among many people has seen some improvement - but Rose is not referring to the general population, but rather those who through the media express ideas based on 'Liberal Thinking or as Rose put it, Modern Thinking. It is the degree of influence that this way of thinking has when it is expressed through the media and sometimes by media people, that presents a clear danger. This way of thinking is present in both British and American society and is being used by a minority who appear to have no real understanding of morality as a general principal, or of Ethics or for that matter *exual Ethics. Ever wonder why Americans refer to California as the "Land of Fruit and Nuts"? :D |
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:) Mick The Cook Companies | |
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| Quicunque vult | Thursday, 13. September 2007, 22:40 Post #11 |
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John Sweeney I think you must live on another planet! The morality of the country has worsened immeasurably over the last 40-odd years. I remember in the 1950s my parents could leave the house unlocked, windows open, without any fear of burglary. My father would leave the keys in the car while shopping, without fear of it being stolen. Today, we have a society that is totally broken – widespread crime, fuelled by drugs, violence against the person, the growing use of guns etc etc. Beyond all this, the insidious dishonesty that characterises many of our social relations in society today. You make light of changes in sexual mores. But contraception is leading to serious population decline in the West, hom osex uality has led to the AIDS epidemic, and worst of all divorce and fatherless families are producing a damaged younger generation that will resort to self-harm and crime, a spiralling of social decline. And our political leaders and institutions are reinforcing dysfunction. This is largely because our society has turned its back on Christianity in favour of relativism, the philosophy that if it feels right, do it. Self-limitation has gone out of the window. Relativism is leading us towards the buffers. How soon will people wake up to this? QV |
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| Colin2000 | Friday, 14. September 2007, 09:31 Post #12 |
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Hi QV., With you all the way on this one. Only a matter of time before we arm the police as a result! In the middle of the 1960's I was given a demonstration in New York with their Police there of anti-armed piecing doors for police cars! Then science fiction. Today a good idea. Might add also armoured piecing shotgun shells too to help sell the armoured doors! Yours in His Name, Colin. PS. It reminded me of the tank I had just finished working on a few years earlier! |
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JESUS IS LORD | |
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| Deleted User | Sunday, 16. September 2007, 22:15 Post #13 |
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I disagree In the 50s we never left our doors unlocked. That is a Daily Mail /Telegraph myth. We did discriminate openly against black people because of the colour of their skin. We had no minimum wage. We created the conditions which have led to global warming. A privileged few went to university and collared all the best jobs as a result. We made only very limited attempts to share our wealth with the Third World. The repression throughout society led to a tough aloof, emotion starved society which led to most of the social problems we grapple with today. Women were denied their rightful place in society and indeed in many public sector jobs had to leave as soon as they married. Today drugs is a problem leading to much of the low level but pernicious crime which plagues certain areas. However, our young people ar emuch more engaged, improvements have been made to racial and sexual equality although we have much to do, our young people can aspire and often reach the heights of any profession, aid to the Third World is huge although still not enough and compared to the Fifties there is much more engagement and respect for each other. Gay rights is another area where we are much more civilised than then although the Church in particular needs to raise its game on this. All in all, much better now. Above all, more people are more prosperous which is a key gain. Regards john |
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| Rose of York | Sunday, 16. September 2007, 22:37 Post #14 |
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John is right. In some areas of morality there have been great advances. I remember the war wounded men sitting on a chapel wall in the town centre. That was where men with missing limbs went for company. Few had any chance of employment. Where I grew up many decent families lived in rat infested hovels because decent houses were few and far between. Some of my school friends passed the 11+ but could not go to grammar school because their parents could not afford the uniforms, anyway the older children needed to bring a wage home as soon as they were 15. We used to go from school to an old peoples' home to sing Christmas Carols. The residents were in huge dormitories with no privacy, comforts, books or activities. One local family were in the newspaper because their son was commissioned in the Army, despite his parents living on a council estate. That would not be newsworthy nowadays. I would like to return to the sexually moral days of yore, provided I can take my central heating and state pension with me. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| JARay | Monday, 17. September 2007, 00:06 Post #15 |
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I agree with Quicunque vult. Morality has gone to the dogs. Today's Society has lost the plot when it lost its Christian heritage. Hence crimes of all kinds have shot up, particularly crimes against the person. Never mind 'love your neighbour', even respect your neighbour no longer exists in the minds of many. The attitude is "me first" and to hell with the rest. Our increased affluence has led us to increased selfishness. Children today are so aware of their rights but completely unaware of any duties at all. Abortion, the push for euthanasia and for the casting aside of the elderly because they are a drain on society are features of this selfish society. This stupid society is driving itself into extinction and sharia law will increasingly hold sway as more and more Moslems take over the de-christianised West. Their single-minded determination to take over is aided by godlessness of the West. JARay |
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3:42 PM Jul 11